Such little things, she thought as she fed them by hand or rather, tried to feed them, for the dragons would not eat. They would hiss and spit at each bloody morsel of horsemeat, steam rising from their nostrils, yet they would not take the food… until Dany recalled something Viserys had told her when they were children. Only dragons and men eat cooked meat, he had said.
You know what I kinda want?. I want Ghost to instantly fall in love with Daenerys and start to follow her around and Jon be like “You traitor” and maybe one of the dragons instantly click with Jon and just start listen to him and Daenerys is like “I can’t believe this”. Just imagine like both Drogon (or any of the other dragons) and Ghost kinda switch owners and follow them around listening to them, protecting them, loving them….Gah! Someone needs to write this or I will!
Can you think of any ASOIAF female characters deliberately scripted to quippy and clever, other than Olenna Tyrell? Or female comic relief (that's not super gross ala Lolys)? I was thinking about it, and it seems that the men hog most of the humor in the story (same for GOT, but women in GOT only tend to fluctuate between cold, angry, scheming, and crying so...) .
Off the top of my head? Myranda Royce and Genna Lannister. Dany’s definitely got her moments of sharp humour as well.
However, there’s actually fairly solid in-universe reason for this. Humour of the sort you’re describing often involves putting someone down. Being funny in this way is therefore not encouraged amongst Westerosi noblewomen (how indecorous! what if they made fun of a man?). It’s no accident that Olenna (old widow), Myranda (younger widow), Genna (complete and overt power imbalance between her and her husband) and Dany (ruling queen with dragons) are the women with the social space to make snarky comments about men in public or semi-public. Contrast with image-conscious Margaery, who’s no stranger to snide comments, but has to be sneaky about them.
Humour, and its expression, is subversive. Training women not to be funny, and people not to see women as capable of producing humour, is part of the patriarchy GRRM’s depicting.
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.
- Mirri Maz Duur, Game of Thrones.
I’ve always been of the belief that the maegi’s prophecy about Khal Drogo’s return wasn’t all literal or all that impossible. It’s always felt like at some point the prophecy’s at-first-glance-impossibilities would start coming true in some way, shape or form (they haven’t yet in book or show, but one can still hope!)
And I’ve always had my theories about what it could mean (if anything) and how it could play out - some parts slightly more coherent than others.
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. - Dragon’s breath, burning from the west as Dany sacks her way through Westeros? At some point I think one of the major, defining battles will start at dawn, Dany and her dragons coming blazing from the west and finish the day in the east.
When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind like leaves. - The first part of this to me could mean the complete freezing up of water bodies around Westeros. The second part though… Could mean ashes blowing across mountains, foreboding Dany’s arrival or the ashes of funeral pyres, or “mountains” could be a metaphor for the dragons themselves??? Dunno, still puzzling that one out.
When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. - This one’s probably the most literal part of the prophecy. Maybe when Dany finally finds someone she can truly love in some way (I don’t believe she’s ever loved anyone since Drogo or will ever love anyone the way she did him) and chooses and does have a family with, Drogo will finally return? Or maybe she just gets knocked up unexpectedly.
Either way, I’m probably wrong on all counts - as usual - and Mizzi Maz Duur made it impossible just to torture Dany, but seeing as how Cersei’s already seeing the maegi’s prophecy of her play out, why can’t Dany’s?
I’m curious to see what everyone else’s theories are. And seeing as how the series (both book and show) is filled with impossible realities who’s to say this won’t be fulfilled now that she’s back in Westeros?
I want to
talk about Bran Stark since he is often overlooked when it comes to the
theories of how the war against the Others will play out as well as his
eventual fate. His forward journey is perhaps the one that is the hardest to predict.
Many seem to think that he’ll become enmeshed in a weirwood like the Tree-Eyed
Raven but I don’t find that to be a particularly satisfying ending and the show
seems to have put paid to that particular theory. The books and the show are diverging
but Bran leaving the weirwood cave and the Tree-Eyed Raven makes sense when you
consider how the narrative has framed his arc until now. Like his sisters,
Sansa and Arya, Bran’s story has so far been one of apprenticeship and that
narrative pattern generally ends with the apprentice finishing his/training,
becoming a master and setting out for him/herself. What exactly is Bran’s role
in the larger scheme of things? In this respect it is important to remember
that Bran is in fact the single most magic character in the entire story. He is
a powerful warg and greenseer – and it is those qualities that leads me to
believe that he will play a crucial, if not the most crucial, part in the War
for the Dawn.
Now is the
time to put on the tinfoil hat and follow me into the realm of speculation.
Bran is, as
already mentioned, the most magical character in the entire series and it is
already suggested in the first book that he has a very special destiny. During
his coma, he is contacted by a three-eyed raven who promises him that he’ll fly
and shows him the heart of winter, which is terrifying (though we don’t see
what Bran sees). In the second book, Bran is guided by another character with
magical abilities – Jojen Reed who tells Bran that he has to travel beyond the
Wall. Jojen has also dreamt of a winged wolf and a three-eyed crow – the winged
wolf most likely referring to Bran. When he finds the Three-Eyed Raven, he is
instructed in using his greensight to see the past and he is also continuing to
exercise his powers as a warg.
that Bran will play a crucial part in the final battle – for several reasons.
One, he is the most magical person with his combination of warging and
greenseeing. I suspect that his greenseeing will help him discover a way to end
the threat of the Others. It is obviously important that he can see into the
past. Secondly, I suspect that Bran will warg one of the dragons. There’s a
reason that he is the most powerful warg in the realm and when he meets the
Three-Eyed Raven he is told that “he will never walk again but that he will fly”
(Dance of Dragons, ch. 13, Bran II). Furthermore, Bran’s story also shares a
number of similarities with the legend of the Last Hero who went beyond the
Wall to seek the help of the Children of the Forest. Could it be that Bran is
going to have a role akin to the Last Hero? It is no accident that the
Three-Eyed Raven, who is a Targaryen bastard, is specifically recruiting a
Stark as an apprentice in magic against the approaching threat of the Others.
that was Promised/Azor Ahai
the story there’s a lot of talk about prophesies about a singular hero that
will save the world from darkness. There’s Azor Ahai and the Prince that was
Promised. They are seen as interchangeable Melisandre but it is unclear whether
they refer to the same person.
several contenders for this role:
originally thought that it was Rhaegar Targaryen but later thinks that it is Daenerys Targaryen since she fits many elements of the prophecy.
thought it was his son Aegon and that his song was the Song of Ice and Fire
(but that epithet only really fits Jon Snow as the son of a Stark and a Targaryen).
thinks it is Stannis but in Dance of Dragons she only sees “snow” in her fires
when she seeks answers on PwP/AA. That seems to point to Jon as well.
So who is
the Chosen One, the hero to save the world? The figure of a Chosen One is one
of the most pervasive tropes in fantasy fiction – but what if GRRM has decided
to play around with the trope and have not one but three Chosen Ones to save
the world? Who would they be? My theory is Jon, Dany and Bran – a Stark, a
Targaryen and a Stark-Targaryen (symbolising Ice, Fire and the middleground between the two extremes).
are obviously going to play a crucial part in the war. It will be an epic
battle between opposing elemental forces. The dragons are described as “fire
made flesh” and it can be argued that the Others are “ice made flesh” since
they melt when they are stabbed with dragonglass. There are three dragons and
it seems that you have to be a Targaryen to be a dragonrider. Dany is already a
dragonrider and Jon will most likely also be a dragonrider since he has
Targaryen blood. Who will be the third?
Not Tyrion as so many think (I don’t buy Tyrion as a secret Targ), possibly
Aegon but not likely since he has been cut from the show and most likely is a
fake (a mummer’s dragon). This is where Bran comes in. He is not a Targ but he
is very powerful warg and I don’t think it is impossible that he’ll warg one of
be Bran’s final fate?
fear that Bran won’t survive the final war. Why? Because I think that the bittersweet
ending that GRRM promises will be a Tolkien inspired one: the heroes will win,
important characters will be lost, the survivors will have to contend with a
ravaged realm but some of them will also get a somewhat happy ending – and, most
importantly, magic will disappear from Westeros. Why is that bittersweet? I
think we’ll have to look at this in a Tolkienian vein: something awe-inspiring
and otherworldly will be gone forever. Just like something beautiful and
awe-inspiring is lost when the elves leave Middle-Earth for good.
this theory mean for the survival of the 6 main characters? (Yes, I count Sansa
among the main characters). I have read an interesting take on these 6 characters,
dividing them into Heroes (Jon, Dany, Tyrion) and Rebuilders (Sansa, Arya, Bran).
This theory posits that the latter will survive to rebuild Westeros whereas the
Heroes may all die. However, I wish to posit a different division with Jon,
Dany and Bran as the Heroes (also the characters most associated with magic)
and Sansa, Arya and Tyrion as the Rebuilders.
are not strongly associated with magic and they all have skills that aren’t
particular useful for a magical conflict but rather are rooted in the mundane
world of politics. Sansa is learning the political game but she is also
learning to manage a large household in the Eyrie – she will be perfectly
poised to hold the homefront in Winterfell but also to lead the rebuilding. She
also has the makings to be an excellent Consort, something that Tyrion notices
when she is nothing more than a child. Arya is training as an assassin and spy and her skills could easily be adapted to the political
game (spymaster) – though Arya’s forward journey is almost as difficult to
predict as Bran’s. Tyrion is familiar with the political game but he is also a
builder in a more concrete manner: he designed a special saddle for Bran and he
had the massive chain made for the Blackwater Battle.
comes to the Heroes, I believe that the ones most likely to die are Bran and
Dany. Bran because he is the character most intimately tied to magic and Dany
because she is so closely tied to her dragons (also magic, they won’t survive
the disappearance of magic). Dany’s death also fits nicely with the theory that
ASoIaF isn’t a story about a Targaryen restoration. The original title for the
last book was A Time for Wolves and the Starks are very much at the heart of
the story. I have always seen Dany as a tragic character – the Last Targaryen
and I believe that her story is not one of triumph but a swan song – the end of
the Targaryen dynasty. Why? Because throughout the books (and the attending
novellas), the Targaryens have largely been detrimental to Westeros. The Iron
Throne is their creation and it is a toxic legacy that has riven the country
with so much conflict and destruction that the people of Westeros are almost
unable to face and withstand the real threat: the Others and the undead. Thus I
think that Dany will be the last of her house and that she’ll perish with the
creatures that are so intimately connected with her house.
Jon? I find Jon’s fate almost impossible to predict. I’d say there’s a 50/50
for his survival. One the one hand, he’s being resurrected for a specific
purpose: to fight the Others. On the other hand, it is narratively unsatisfying
to have him die again. Then there’s the fact that he also has a skillset that
is very useful for post-war Westeros. He’s a leader of men and a military
commander. He’s been made King in the North in the show and thus I think it
mostly likely that he’ll be made king in the books as well (Robb’s will). Being
the son of Rhaegar, he’ll also have a claim to the Iron Throne. However, I don’t
think that the Iron Throne (or King’s Landing will survive). I think that the
books will end with the rise of a new royal dynasty: the Starks and that the
strongest political power will reside in the North.
magic will disappear and the seasons will fall into a more “normal” pattern. I
think Jon, Sansa, Arya (and possibly Tyrion) will survive whereas Dany and Bran
will perish. The Iron Throne will cease to exist and the Starks will be the new
political power in Westeros. Whether Westeros will remain a united kingdom or
not is hard to predict – but I do find it possible for it to remain united
under a Weirwood Throne instead of an Iron Throne.
However, this is all speculation and I could be completey wrong.
So this occurred to me while I was scrolling through some fan-art stuff and I saw this picture of Dany and Daario side by side. It got me thinking; what exactly is their relationship? From the only outside POV we get on the matter (Barristen) it's apparently just Dany being infatuated cause she's young and horny and he's exotically attractive. Is that literally all there is? Is Daario just a boy toy in this story? Does their relationship (sexual or otherwise) have any bearing on the narrative?
Definitely there’s more. And even if it was just Dany being infatuated because she’s young and horny it’s still a big deal that Dany, who was sold off to her first husband, is now in a position where she can choose to have a romantic and sexual relationship.
Back to the more going on. It has to do with the contrast between Daario and Hizdahr, and the political paths they represent.
Do you anticipate any further explanation or understanding of the dragons in the last two books, or do you think that they'll continue to be nuclear weaponry with cool names and little distinguishing characteristics?
Hey man! I think the dragons have been well-established as externalizations of Dany in the same way the direwolves are for the Starklings. Their birth on the Dothraki Sea reflects her rebirth at the end of AGOT as a leader in her own right, apart from Drogo and Viserys. They become an object of fascination in ACOK and so does she, as the deceitful powers-that-be in Qarth seek to ensnare them, climaxing with Drogon saving Dany from the Undying. As they grow both literally and in terms of confidence and aggression in ASOS, the scope of her story widens accordingly, and they unleash her anger on the slavers. In ADWD, it takes a potent turn; Hazzea’s death, resonating as it does with the dead children throughout Dany’s storyline, leads Dany to consider the dragons representative of her worst self. Her locking up Rhaegal and Viserion is a blunt metaphor for her repressing her desire for outright war, and indeed, she turns to them (and the bloodthirsty Daario) for comfort and catharsis when her certainty in Hizdahr’s peace wavers. Drogon escaped, of course, and when Dany’s disgust and anger reaches its peak at Daznak’s, he returns to take her away. He then refuses to take her back, leading to her gradually rejecting Meereen as home, forgetting Hazzea’s name and instead embracing “fire and blood.”
Throughout all these storylines, Dany’s constantly communicating her emotions in terms of feeling fiery or (explicitly) like a dragon. This is in part the legacy of Viserys’ “wake the dragon” mantra; Dany associates anger and violence with dragon imagery. But GRRM’s also making a larger point about the possibilities and pitfalls of power, one rooted in the history of Valyria and the Targaryen regime in Westeros. On the one hand, Dany has the world’s only dragons, potentially a world-changing source of power and a connection to her Targaryen identity that’s not just secondhand info from her brother. On the other, that makes her a target, and again, she can’t fully control them, meaning there’s constantly the possibility that things will fall apart in a catastrophic fashion…especially if she decides she wants that. This, of course, has implications for the genre, the idea being that having flying WMDs doesn’t automatically solve your problems or the world’s (and indeed, they bring their own), nor do they inherently make you a worthy leader. GRRM’s always arguing against shortcuts in characterization. The magic in ASOIAF tends to complicate and deepen character dilemmas, not solve them.
As for how they’ll be used in the future: if Jon and Tyrion become dragonriders as I suspect, that will definitely contribute to their arcs in a big way (Jon RE Rhaegar, Tyrion RE “even a stunted, twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he’s seated on a dragon’s back"), and Dragonbinder has the potential to rework the dragons’ roles entirely, though probably temporarily. Regardless, they’ll always represent that teetering-on-the-edge between the power to change the world for good and the power to just burn everything down. Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin…
In the books the only thing that comes even close to being a clue is the blue rose Dany sees in the HOTU . But that doesn't necessarily mean romance it can mean a family relationship between the two.
I’m not sure you are aware of this, but I’ve created a detailed outline of the potential moments of foreshadowing between Dany and Jon that can be found in the book. You can find them here.
While I’m at it, I will take a moment to address your comment about the blue rose. We can deduce what the vision means by analyzing the scenes that are paired with in that sequence that Dany is shown. I’m going to review the whole sequence so that it’s clear what the scene with the blue flower really means.
“I don’t …” Her voice was no more than a whisper, almost as faint as theirs. What was happening to her? “I don’t understand,” she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? “Help me. Show me.”
… help her … the whispers mocked… . show her …
Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name… . mother of dragons, daughter of death …
Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire… . mother of dragons, slayer of lies …
Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness… . mother ofdragons, bride of fire …
As with all things, let’s start from the beginning…
The first part of this scene Dany is asking the Undying to clarify what they had just said to her:
… three heads has the dragon …
the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air
… . mother of dragons … child of storm … The whispers became a swirling song… .
three fires must you light … one for life and one for death and one to love …
Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt …
three mounts must you ride … one to bed and one to dread and one to love …
The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath… .
three treasons will you know … once for blood and once for gold and once for love …
So then we get to the vision, which are separated into three difference sections, Daughter of Death, Slayer of Lies, and Bride of Fire.
Daughter of Death
Here Dany is shown images of the death of her brother Viserys, the once potential future of her son Rhaego and the death of her brother Rhaegar.
So, why is Dany shown these images? She is shown these images because the deaths of these three men where instrumental in Dany becoming the woman she is, the Mother of Dragons if you will. Rhaegar’s death caused the downfall of her family, which lead to her being raised in exile. The death of Viserys marked the end of what remained of her Targaryen family, leaving her the love Targaryen. And the death of her son marked the end of her life with Drogo and what remained of her family, leaving her completely alone in the world.
Slayer of Lies
These vision are of impostors, men who have taken the mantle that belong to her. Her very existence as the Mother of Dragons slays the lie of what they all pretend to be.
Stannis pretends to be the prophesied savior, when he’s not, he’s not going to be part of the coalition that will fight the Others. Mostly because he wants to be the ultimate king, but that’s not what will be needed, because it won’t matter. Aegon is an impostor, pretending to be the Targaryen heir. He’s not a real dragon, he’s a mummers dragon, a puppet of the puppeteers known as Varya and Illyrio. Finally, I believe that the stone beast, breathing shadow fire is Euron. He’s gathering a lot of dark magic and other stuff to somehow reinvent himself as a Valyrian come again. But of course he’s not that, the last heir to Valyria is Dany, with her looks and her dragons and her lineage. The Valyan’s were terrible people and she’s transforming what they use to be, where once they used dragons to enslave the people of Essos, she’s using dragons to liberate them.
Bride of Fire
These images pertain to the men Dany will marry and we know this because the first image is almost identical to when Dany consummated her marriage to Drogo. But also by what she is told before these images are shown to her regarding the mounts, which might connect with thee visions.
The first image:
“Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.
Bow here is a description of Dany
“They rode out together as the stars came out, leaving the khalasar and the grass palaces behind. Khal Drogo spoke no word to her, but drove his stallion at a hard trot through the gathering dusk. The tiny silver bells in his long braid rang softly as he rode. “I am the blood of the dragon,” she whispered aloud as she followed, trying to keep her courage up. “I am the blood of the dragon. I am the blood of the dragon.” The dragon was never afraid.
Afterward she could not say how far or how long they had ridden, but it was full dark when they stopped at a grassy place beside a small stream. Drogo swung off his horse and lifted her down from hers.”
The firs image is a clear description of Dany’s first time with Drogo. The second and the third are harder to pin down just because they haven’t happened already. I believe the corpse to be Hizdahr after Victarion kills him and ties him to the prow of his ship, to show Dany how manly he is.
The third image of course is Jon. The son of a blue rose who at The Wall, will be a source of happiness for her (fill the air with sweetness).
If we connect the three mounts noted above to these visions, the one to bed is Drogo, i.e. why we get a description of their first time together. The one to dread is Hazdhar, she dreaded having to marry him and his death at the hands of a Greyjoy is not that good, because Victarion is NOT show Theon and Yara.
Extroverted Feeling (Fe): The first function Dani developed is the one with which she could navigate the emotional atmosphere around her. She had to probe Viserys’s mood and adapt herself accordingly ’… she knew better than to question her brother when he wove his webs of dream. His anger was a terrible thing when roused. Viserys called it “waking the dragon.”’ She also learned to read people quickly. She assessed Illyrio to be an opportunist ’It was also said that he’d never had a friend he wouldn’t cheerfully sell for the right price.‘ her reading of people and the surroundings made her more pragmatics than Viserys, who was still stuck inside the personal mythical idea of Westeros and Targaryan superiority that he learned. ( ’In the alleys and wine sinks of Pentos, they called her brother “the beggar king.” Dany did not want to know what they called her.’ ’Dany listened to the talk in the streets, and she heard these things…’ ’It seems to me that a queen who trusts no one is as foolish as a queen who trusts everyone. Every man I take into my service is a risk, I understand that, but how am I to win the Seven Kingdoms without such risks?’)
Dani, after being in a ‘healthy’ emotional environment in the Vaes Dothrak where there was no more perpetual threat of abuse, continued to sync to external values. She quickly learned to please Drogo, physically and mentally. She built rapports with all of her handmaiden, and soon, her people and Missandei. As she began her conquest, her first mood is talk through people and often, emotionally manipulate them and luring them into a false sense of security. She let the slavers think her harmless and gullible in Astapor. She does the same trick again at Yunkai (’…that I wanted their answers on the morrow. I made no promises about tonight. The Stormcrows will be arguing about my offer. The Second Sons will be drunk on the wine I gave Mero. And the Yunkai'i believe they have three days. We will take them under cover of this darkness’)
Cultural assimilation continued to play a role in her plot. She absorbs the external values and mirrors them instinctively. She doesn’t make emotional appeal with an endgame of getting things done in the long run, it’s second nature to her. When in Dothraki, she quickly becomes a proper Khaleesi, not just acting like one, she uptakes there values. The Dothraki Stallion along with the seven becomes her god (Dany said a quick prayer, begging the Warrior for courage and the Dothraki horse god for strength. She made herself walk forward.) At Quarth, she dresses like a Quartheen and followed the Quartheen protocol thoroughly to gain support. At Meereen, she dons her ‘floppy ears’ and wears tokar, hating it all the while. She did not marry Hizdar in the book on gunpoint like the show, she observes all the customs necessary. Dani wants to belong, desperately. She keeps looking for a home, and hates being an outsider.
Her empathy does not stem from her identifying with the slaves, she feels it objectively anyway. For example, when the bloody flux infected people set up camp, she went down to clean them, even when she never felt sick in her life (Targaryens were untroubled by the pestilences that afflicted common men, and so far as she could tell, it was true. She could remember being cold and hungry and afraid, but never sick.) Book Dani does not scream blunt force. She dances around and sugarcoats (I am only a young girl who know little of (insert something here)). She is polite to like, everyone. Even when she doubts their alliance. Dani’s feelings are not ingrained, they are real-time. When she saw a child was killed by her dragons, she quickly caged them. But she literally issued torture order for another girl because she was not there in front of her, the dead Mossandor was, and that demanded justice first.
Her Fe, at one point becomes problematic. She loved all the children that were supposed to be her hostage and the Harpy seized the fact that she will not harm Meerenese lives. She kept trying to please the people while she continually became unhappy. She literally allowed a man to spit on her face when SHE WAS A QUEEN and she let him go. She even lets Brown Ben Plumm go after betraying her, and she did not punish anyone because she hated the idea of appearing as the Butcher Queen.
Introverted Intuition (Ni): Dani’s symbolism is very personalized. Red door = home imagery ran all through her chapters. She promptly named her Dragons after her brothers even when she had little 'sensory’ impressions of them (the myth of Rhaeger did not come into play here, or the cruelty of Viserys), but she did it because of the concept(the green one Rhaegal 'cause the Trident was green where Rhaeger fell, Viseryon will be the prince Viserys was not).
She absorbed the warning Quaith gave her without any filtering and started scanning everyone for the 'three treason’ with intuition, rather than sensory evidences. Dani, after the torturing experience of riding first with the Khalasaar and getting bruises from horseback, dreamed of a dragon and felt empowered. Then again, she took another leap of faith and woke dragons. Then her trip in the House of the Undying in the book was another Ni trip. She knew the Pree was false Pree, the Wizards are false wizard, the first door on the left in the last door on the right..all through her intuition. Her Se was feeding her clues all along the way, but being an intuitive, she is not aware of it.
Her plan with the Unsullied, the siege of Yunkai by getting the sellsword captain drunk and relying the slaves will throw off their shackles, she kept acting on 'hunches’ up to the third book and her hunches kept paying off, until…
Extroverted Sensing (Se): Her Se is part of her loop. The Fe-Se loop first appears during Drogo’s illness and she ignores all intuition and jumps to act. Then it appears for a longer time in Meereen, and she is stuck into taking desperate measures to get her people behind her (cage the dragons, take children as hostage, then treat those children like royalty, marry Hizdar, agree to slavery in Yunkai and Astapor, open the pits, let the sick camp, then cut the camps off behind the wall…). All the while, she slowly kept losing consciousness with their long-term Ni goal. At first, getting stuck in Meereen only fueled her main objective, in her mind, she needs to be the right kind of Queen first (which overlaps with her theme, the one who fought for ending the slavery of the living will fight the ultimate slavers of humanity). She, in the books, in constantly weighing in her vision of going back 'home’ with her current situation, except she cannot leave with her people like this (Fe). Then as situation spiraled out of control, Westeros took backseat.
Introverted Thinking (Ti): Her Ti is baby Ti. It makes appearance sporadically and she cannot explain her logic because its subjective (like the one about not being a Butcher Queen). After a long loop, it finally kicks off at the final chapter of DwD, when she realizes that Meereen is not home. Then her Ni makes a comeback, and she remember 'who she is meant to be’ and embraces fire and blood.
Note: I am talking about book Dani. Show Dani is with her constant screaming of '“I want my dragons,” “I have dragons,” “The throne is mine,” “I will take what is mine with fire and blood,” and zero people-pleasing is another creature. Show Dani can be a higher Se but book Dani is higher Ni through and through.
Jon Snow comes to visit Daenerys at Dragonstone after the events of Season 6, and learns of his true parentage. He and Daenerys are both stubborn, and find it difficult to trust each other. A shared tragedy brings them closer together. Told from Daenerys’s point of view.
Jon had refused to kneel, when he first came to Dragonstone. He’d stood before her, in well-tailored furs clearly made by someone else’s hand, and simply declined. Dany had been insulted. She was also intrigued. How many men would refuse the Mother of Dragons, the most beautiful woman in the world?
Stubbornness ran deep in Jon, she soon learned. She’d had the idea to form an alliance with him, and seduce him, as soon as she heard of his visit. She’d plotted as he traveled from Winterfell, with Tyrion’s help.
“He’ll be as intractable as a mule. Slightly more handsome, though,” Tyrion had told her, and winked.
Tyrion had been right. Jon promised his army with some reluctance, but he was cold to her advances. It stung more than she expected. She wasn’t immune to loneliness herself. She’d felt a childish swelling of hope when she’d learned that she might not be the last of her line, that another dragon might walk the earth. But Jon kept her mostly at a distance, though she saw him staring at her once or twice. Perhaps there was some truth to the saying that Northern men had ice in their veins.
Jon took to Rhaegal, at least. Dany envied how quickly he’d developed a bond with the beast. It had taken her months to feel the presence of Drogon’s mind, once he was fully grown. Jon had managed to connect with the green dragon in a matter of days. It had made her job of convincing him of his true heritage easier. That, and Varys’s scroll from Howland Reed had left Jon with no room for doubt.
Jon himself might not say much, but the news he brought of the terror north of the Wall had turned Dany’s mission on its head. She’d sailed across the Narrow Sea prepared to do battle in Westeros. She’d arrived on shore ready to take what was hers, as was her right, and reclaim the Iron Throne at King’s Landing. Then Jon confirmed Varys’s whispers of the White Walkers, and the wights, and priorities had shifted to protecting the realm. They needed weapons, and weapons, according to Jon, meant fire, and dragonglass.
Fire, and powerful fire at that, they had in abundance, thanks to Drogon, Rhaegal, and Viserion. But the dragonglass was more elusive. Dozens of Unsullied had scoured the castle and come back empty-handed. Dany was not a patient woman by nature, and was ready to move on. Yet Tyrion insisted they search the caverns beneath Dragonstone once more.
“I’ll hear no more about dragonglass, Lord Tyrion.” Dany tucked into their meager breakfast. The stores of food were depleting fast. But she’d traveled enough under rough conditions to eat whatever was before her.As she saw Jon scrape his plate clean, she thought the same might be true of him.
Tyrion had a more discerning palate, and picked at the stale bread and hard cheese with distaste. “We need all the weapons we can find, my queen.”
Dany rolled her eyes. Would Tyrion not let this go? “Has it slipped your mind, Lord Tyrion, the days we’ve spent searching arrived?”
“Hardly, Your Grace. But I did receive an interesting raven just this morning. Apparently we haven’t been looking in the right place.” Tyrion, naturally, made a show of revealing his secret. He brought the scroll out from under his green tunic with a flourish.
Hey, do you know whether Dany had planned to betray the terms of her deal with Kraznys mo Nakloz in advance or not? I'm re-reading the chapter and I used to think she had ("I know what Aegon proved. I mean to prove a few things of my own"), but then, later: "Dany fed her dragons as she always did, but found she had no appetite herself. She cried awhile, alone in her cabin". What do you think?
Yes, Dany came up with her plan after meeting with Kraznys the first time in Dany II, ASoS, and before buying the Unsullied in Dany III. She needed an army, but the point of Dany II is that she finds she absolutely cannot abide the institution of slavery that produced the Unsullied. Dany III provides us with her solution to that dilemma.
Immediately after the second quote you cite, she calls her bloodriders and Ser Jorah to her cabin, to give them notice of her plan. Dany’s afraid, is all, upset by what she had to do to get to this point, and not looking forward to the violence on the morrow.
Contrast & Parallels: Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow
-Both of their fathers died before they were born.
-Both of their mothers died giving birth to them.
-Both were sneak away to a geographically opposite location from the one they
were born in order to keep them save from those who would harm them (Jon went
from South to North and Dany from West to East).
-Both grew up emotionally abused by someone close, Dany by
her brother Vuserys and Jon by his stepmother Catelyn (Dany’s abuse was greater of course, Jon’s was more neglect).
-All Dany had was her name and her brother, she had no
home and no security. Jon did not have a name but he had
a family, a home and security.
-One was educated by Maester’s and Master at Arms (Jon),
the other one was mostly self-thought with some education by her brother (Dany).
-Both are methodical but in completely different ways, Jon
is more analytical and Dany is more intuitive.
-Both are described as highly observant, especially throughout AGOT.
-At the beginning of their arcs they both embark on adventures. Jon
goes North to the Wall and Dany goes East towards the
-Both receive/find their magical companions at the beginning of their arcs.
-Both of the magical companions are the alpha’s of their pack. Ghost the wolf is
white with red eyes, Drogon the dragon is black with red eyes.
-Both have dreams about their animal companions.
-Both reluctantly join cultures that are considered barbaric by others. Both are
forced into a relationship from a members of these barbaric cultures. Both fall
in love with these “barbarians”. Both are indirectly responsible for
the deaths of their lover’s.
-Both think of these lover’s often well after they have died (especially
-Both have resided in extreme climates. Dany in the
dessert of the Red Waste and the heat of Slaver’s Bay and Jon
at the Wall and beyond the Wall.
-Currently, one is in the South and one in the North, one is in the East and one
is in the West.
-Both long for home and the family member’s they didn’t know.
-Both encounter abandoned cities in ACOK (back to back chapters Daenerys I &
Jon II) described as white cities, Whitetree and Vaes Tolorros.
-They both come to leadership at a young age.
-Both try to change long standing institutions, Dany is
trying to abolish slavery while Jon is trying to change
the Night’s Watch
-Both are trying to right wrongs committed by their ancestors, Dany
is fighting slaver with her dragons, where once upon a time the Valyrians used
their dragons to enslave people. Jon is trying to bring
the Wldinglings back into Westeros while once upon a time it was the north lead
by the Stark’s that left the Wildlings beyond the wall and kept them there.
-Both encounter great resistance from the establishment, those who wish to
maintain the status quo.
-Jon tries to change the system from within (as he is a
brother of the Night’s Watch and a Westerosis) Dany tries
to change the system as an outsider.
-Both face many setbacks and become increasingly frustrated with their roles as
-They are both betrayed by said establishment and face assassination attempts. Dany is able to escape her would be assassins by flying away a
top her magical animal companion while Jon’s assassination
attempt is successful because he locked away his magical animal companion.
-Both yearn for the child they cannot have, in ASOS Jon
lament that he will never have a son and in ADWD Dany laments that she will
never have a daughter.
“I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A
son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live
his life on the Wall.” When considering Stannis offer to become Lord of
Winterfell, which he rejects.
“I will never have a little girl. I was the Mother of
ETA: A few more
-Both have Mormonts as mentors, Jon has Jeor and Dany has Jorah.
Also, Jon wields the Mormont family sword Longclaw which once belonged
-While Jon wants to be like his father Ned, Dany is the opposite, she doesn’t want to be anything like her father Aerys.
-Both have chosen to place duty over love, Jon with Ygritte when he chose the Night’s Watch and the realm over her and the WIldlings and Dany with Daario (problem more lost) when she broke things off with him to marry Hizdhar for the good of Meereen.
-Both start their journey in AGOT with a feast. Jon’s first AGOT chapter is during the feast for King Robert. Dany’s first chapter in AGOT is the preparation for her wedding feast to Khal Drogo.
-Daenerys was offered the chance to return to Westeros, but she decied
to stay in Meereen to rule and help her people. Jon was offered to be
made a Stark of Winterfell, but he refused because he knows he has a
duty to the Night’s Watch, and because he feels that as a bastard, he
doesn’t have morally the right to be Lord of Winterfell.
Both want the best for all the sides, and both struggle to be accepted
by those they rule. They both turn their attention to the outcasts of
the society,to those other people refused: Jon cares for the Wildling,
and is the first Lord Commander in history to make peace with them and
allow them to cross the Wall; while Daenerys releases thousands of
enslaved people and does everything she can to keep them alive.
Both think of their family they never knew: Jon quite a lot of his mother, and Daenerys of Rhaegar and Aerys, and her ancestors.
-Daenerys feels the need to carry her Targaryen lineage and
fulfill the duty to her House, Jon also want to impress his adoptive
“He was no true Stark, had never been one … but he could die like one.
Let them say that Eddard Stark had fathered four sons, not three.
“Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. “The dragons know. Do you?”