In your personal opinion what was each Primarch's, not just the Traitors, greatest flaw?
OK, let’s take it from the top!
I. Lion El’Jonson: Paranoia. His inability to trust people is the reason it took Luther to actually get his crusade against the Great Beasts going, and gives him an independent streak that causes major problems in Imperium Secundus.
III. Fulgrim: Pride, vanity.
IV. Perturabo: There’s anger and paranoia, but bitterness is the core. He appears to deal with things stoically, but underneath he builds up resentment until he snaps - the anger is the release, the paranoia the defence mechanism to lower his expectations of others.
V. Jaghatai Khan: Unpredictable and impetuous, he lives in the present and doesn’t do much in the way of planning ahead.
VI. Leman Russ: Raised a legion of hypocrites in spite of his own surprising self-awareness. In fact he was probably too self-aware, and got swept up in paying the part he believed he was meant to play.
VII. Rogal Dorn: Uncompromising and inflexible, which stems from his idealism. He attempted to fortify the palace effectively with one arm tied behind his back because he wanted to make sure everything could be put back. Incapable of bending, he either stands strong, or breaks, which nearly kicked off a second civil war.
VIII. Night Haunter: A total psychopath utterly convinced his actions were justified. Very much a “two wrongs make a right” kind of guy.
IX. Sanguinius: Dare I say a bad word about Sanguinius? Well, yeah. There’s obviously some anger issues in there somewhere, hence the black rage, but he also has a case of imposter syndrome and a streak of self-pity. He’s terrified of letting other people down and overly concerned with his own flaws.
X. Ferrus Manus: Anger, which his sons are so eager to overcome that they virtually lobotomise themselves.
XII. Angronius Thal’kr: Anger would be too easy, although it does go beyond the Butcher’s Nails. I think spite may be closer to the mark. He doesn’t believe in anything, he defines himself by what he is against.
XIII. Roboute Guilliman: Views everything as part of the bigger picture. Individuals become part of systems to which they must conform, yet the system is ever-changing as he steals his brothers’ ideas. Struggles with deviations from expected norms. His focus on what was best for the Imperium as a whole after the Heresy contributed to him handling Dorn very poorly.
XIV. Mortarion: Insecurity, which he projects onto others in his loathing of psykers after he was too weak to stop his father, and eventually turns him into everything he hated most.
XV. Magnus Rubricatus: Arrogance, and a surprising impetuousness and naïveté that flow from that. Believing he knows best, he doesn’t think about things as much as he should, meaning he misses things that should be obvious to someone as intelligent as he is. The galaxy’s dumbest smart guy after the Emperor himself.
XVI. Horus Lupercal: Absolutely desperate for attention.
XVII. Lorgar Aurelian: Very naïve and trusting, which results in him putting people on a pedestal thank frankly don’t deserve to be there. He somehow managed to overlook all of Kor Phaeron’s many, many flaws (aka his personality) for several centuries.
XVIII. Vulkan: Relies only on himself. The first thing he does when he finds out about Horus is order a giant weapon stash to be destroyed, trusting no-one else except himself to use them. You have to wonder how much he really thinks about what he does given that he also managed to feel bad about killing an Eldar kid even though he’s totally on board with his Father’s planned genocide of their (and every other xenos) species.
XIX. Corvus Corax: Self-destructive inasmuch as he is prepared to do bad things for the right reasons, but can’t quite get over having done them. He believes he’s doing the right thing even as the doubts fester, and the end result is self-loathing.
XX. Alpharius Omegon: A stealth specialist who feels the need for everyone to know how good at stealth he is.
A Bit of A Sillier Editorial
(A.K.A I wanna laugh at 40K people trying to fit inside a sedan.)
So, you’re a good, law abiding, non heretical member of the Holy Imperium of Man, and you want to take a drive, but you may have been drinking too much, the question is
WHO DO YOU LET DRIVE?
I’ll be covering a few races, the primarchs, and maybe a god or two
Sanguinius: You fucking let that fabulous angel boy drive you. He won’t even allow you to waste your own gas money, he’ll summon some gorgeous solid gold chariot pulled by giant eagles, and while your flying to your destination he’s nursing your drunkeness back to a state of normalcy. Let him drive you always.
Guilliman: If you let him drive your car, you’re radio will be either set to a military frequency or classics, either way, do not touch that dial. Every traffic law will be obeyed to the T, and anyone caught not doing the same will be pulled over by Guilliman and punished exactly the way they should be according to Imperium laws. It’ll probably be boring, but you’ll live. Plus he might share war stories, so that’s always fun. Wouldn’t be my first choice, but sure, let him drive you.
Horus: Pre heresy Horus will be waiting outside with a car that isn’t yours with dimmed glass so the sun doesn’t bother your eyes you drunk. He’ll allow you to pick the radio station no matter what you like, you can even bring your CDs. The car itself is super nice, and he knows when you want to talk and when you want to sing along to the music. Its a nice, if short trip. Let him drive you but don’t get too attached to him. Post heresy Horus is a pile of dust, and therefore cannot drive.
Mortarion: For the love of all that is holy do not let him drive. If he shows up in his 99% rust pickup truck, do not get in, you will get tetanus. If he gets in your car, there is a good chance it will disintegrate before you reach your destination. However, if it does make it, and you do find yourself enjoying his company, he will actually be a fairly pleasant driver. He doesn’t follow all of the laws, but you will endure. The radio has either a plethora of various death and black metal CDs in it, or he’s using an MP3 player. Either way, if you don’t like your music loud, angry, and fast, you won’t enjoy the music. Conversations will either be fucking depressing as all hell, or some sort of fascinating rambling about chemical reactions and how to improve your endurance. Don’t let him rive you, but if forced, hope for the best.
Lorgar: Lorgar shows up at your house ready to use your own car. Once in he makes sure your comfortable, then puts the radio to some sort of religious station. He’ll talk your ear off about the emperor, and you probably won’t get to say much. The ride itself is pretty relaxing, but nothing to exciting. Yeah sure, let him drive you.
Angron: NO. DO NOT. IF YOU ASK ANGRON TO DRIVE YOU ONE OF THREE THINGS HAPPENS. Either he shows up to your house, breaks your car in half and beats you to death with the two halves, shows up, gets in your car, loses his shit half way through and tears the engine block through the dashboard and beats you to death with it, or he shows up in some giant ass monster truck that is blaring thrash metal at a sound so loud your house’ windows shatter. You will die no matter what. Do not even try to call Angron about getting a ride.
Jaghatai Khan: Do you like breaking every speed limit, running red lights, stop signs, and making it to your destination in two minutes even if its 500 miles away? If yes, Let The Khan drive. If not, do not, under any circumstances, tell him you even THINK you want to go for a drive. If he shows up with his bike, you will literally see the universe move slower than you are, you will probably be vaporized by the wind blowing past you. If you take your car, he has somehow already modified it so that its top speed is 5000 miles per second. You will go around the planet 50 times, listening to thrash and speed metal while screaming that you’re going to crash. Unless you are crazy, never mention ANYTHING to do with driving in his general vicinity.
Magnus: Pre heresy Magnus doesn’t have his own car, but he happily drives yours for you. You CAN listen to your own music, but Magnus reaaally wants to show off this new band he just found that has Psykers using the warp for instruments instead of traditional instruments. Let him play that band. Do it. Don’t you make him feel any worse than he already does. I don’t care if you hate how it sounds you tell him its amazing god damnit. If you guys talk, it will be the most amazing conversation you’ve ever had. You will be able to chat about literally anything, and he can talk about it just as passionately. Let that big red boy drive you forever. Post Heresy Magnus tries to fit in your car, only barely manages, and half way through fucks up your shocks. He offers to fix them at some point and in the meantime teleport the both of you via the warp. Don’t let him drive, you will be eaten by a daemon.
Fulgrim: N O. Fulgrim is going to be high on something no matter what. He will drive you both into a tree and he’ll somehow survive while your dead. There is no good outcome, do not call him for a ride.
Lion El’Jonson: If you manage to get a hold if him, he’ll simply either say yes or no, nothing more. He’ll arrive exactly five minutes later, and will use his own car. The radio has been removed. He says nothing. He takes the quickest route possible and drops you off saying nothing. Let him drive you, it’ll just be overly silent.
Leman Russ: For all that is holy, do NOT. Either you have to ride on a giant fucking wolf, and are in constant fear it will eat you, a fucking tank that will eventually lead you both into battle, or he will get in your car, stink it up to high fucking hell, leave blood and hair everywhere and OH GOD IS THAT FENRISIAN ALE ON HIS BREATH?! If you do somehow manage to survive, the radio station will have viking metal. Because of fucking course it will.
Rogal Dorn: If you call Rogal Dorn for a ride, one of two things will happen. He will show up at your doorstep with an entire military escort, your ride is that giant fucking armored tank.You will make it, but you won’t enjoy it. OR he will show up, silently modify your car into a Fucking APC, and then drive you. If you take your car, no, if he uses his own, go ahead, you’ll be safe no matter what happens along the ride.
Konrad Curze: When you call Konrad for a ride, there will be no sound on the other side of the phone except for breathing. When you hang up and turn around he will be right behind you. He doesn’t have a key. You never gave him a key. You also never gave him your address. He points to your car, he walked there that quick. He never speaks a single word. The radio is utterly silent. If you speak, you die. If anyone even so much as goes a fraction over the speed limit, or breaks any traffic laws, they will be mercilessly pursued, drug out of their cars, and torn apart and strung up on their hood. You will witness at least 5 deaths, need immediate therapy, and will likely have to change addresses, and names. Do not ask for a ride.
Perturabo: Will scream at you the entire time, tell you why his car is much better than both yours AND Dorn’s and will eventually drive to Dorn to rub that in. You will be forgotten, and never arrive at your destination. If the radio plays anything, it will be the edgiest, most emo “crying linkin park lyrics into my pillow” music you have ever heard. Don’t associate with Perturabo to begin with.
Alpharius Omegon: You don’t actually have his phone number. You thought you did, but you don’t. Weird.
Ferrus Manus: If you ask for a ride, you will be told to wait. If you listen, you can hear him working on your car. When he calls back to say he’s ready, you’ll come outside to find your car perfected. It may not be pretty, but this car is the pinnacle of efficiency. The radio is your choice, he doesn’t mind. Go ahead, ask him for a ride, you’ll get a kickass car out of it.
Corvus Corax: When you ask for a ride, he’ll show up, not in a car, not ready to drive your own, but with a jetpack. You’re going flying. If you hate heights, no, if you don’t mind, go ahead, you’ll get where you need to be fast.
Vulkan: You didn’t even call Vulkan, he just knew you’d need a ride. So he showed up in the nicest car he could find, has the temperature set perfectly, the windows are tinted just right, your favorite band is playing at the exact right volume and he drives the path you like the most. You never asked for any of this, he just did it. The one downside is that the engine may spontaneously combust. Vulkan swears he has no idea why that happened. Let him drive you, he will be amazing.
Da Orkz: When you call the ork, he tells you he’ll be there by half past nug. You don’t know what nug is, but okay. When you finally go outside, you’ll find your car completely disassembled and reassembled into a Trukk. When you start driving you’ll think you’re going to die, and in fairness you probably will. The radio is set to either speed, thrash, or heavy metal, most likely the latter. If you survive, he’ll want teef as payment, and will happily punch your face for them. Do not ask for a ride.
Tau: The Tau show up exactly when they say they will, in a hybrid. They take the most practical route, obey every law, and don’t really speak much. It won’t be a fun ride, but it won’t be bad. Let the blue vagina face drive you.
Khorne: Khorne reaches through the phone line, strangles you and then beats you with the phone. Why would you ever think that was a good idea.
Tzeentch: When you call Tzeentch you somehow end up agreeing to drive him. Just as planned. Don’t bother trying to fight it, it will happen no matter what you try.
Slaanesh: Slaanesh doesn’t even answer the phone. They can’t hear it over the orgy currently happening. Either way, they’d be too high to drive, and you’d probably end up having sex in the back seat anyways.
Nurgle: Nurgle gives you a roguh time of when he will be over. Shows up a bit later, but that’s alright, he’s got that lovable grin plastered on his face and he’s wearing that ridiculous Hawaiian shirt. He picks you up in his old as all fuck sedan that barely works. Your drive will be a bit smelly, but that’s alright, Papa is great company either way. It’s a slow drive, but that’s what you wanted anyways. The radio is set to something relaxing. You may contract super cancer, but its a small price to pay to hang out with that swell guy. Let Nurgle drive you around no matter what.
BONUS ABBADON: Abbadon agrees to drive you, in fact he hypes it up as the greatest car ride ever. It will never fail, it will be the single best few minutes of your life. When he shows up he has no arms. He says he has no idea how this could have happened. Why are you even talking to Failbaddon in the first place?
Jago ‘Sevatar’ Sevatarion (First Captain of the Eighth Legion, Commander of the Atramentar, officer of the Kyroptera; known also by the names Sevatar the Condemned and the Prince of Crows)quotes:
“Death to the False Emperor.” [becoming the first living soul to utter the words that would echo through the millennia]
Sev: “It is wise of you to wear the helm this time, cousin. The last time I saw your face, most of it was a wet ribbon of flayed flesh stuck to the ground by my feet. My brothers in the First Company enjoy the tale, for it was the first time I’ve ever started to skin an Angel while he was still alive.”
Alajos: “I will kill you Sevatar. On my life, I swear it.”
Sev: “Cousin, cousin, cousin… I outrank you, do I not? That’s First Captain Sevatar to you, little Angel.”
Sev: “This is a gang tradition from our homeworld. The hands of traitors and fools were tattooed red by their families to show them as deathmarked. A sign that no gang or family would tolerate grave failure, but that the condemned still had labours to perform before they were allowed to die.”
Corswain: “So which are you, a traitor or a fool?”
Sev: “So three of the seven are dead and the primarch is wounded.”
Var Jahan: “The primarch is dying. We lead the Legion now.”
Sev: We’ll see. Either way, the future is grim. This won’t do at all. Of the seven, you three are the ones I like least.“
"But you said the primarch is dying. If so his wishes mean nothing at all.”
“The Angels just taught us a stern lesson in the foolishness of gathering together in one place, and trying to engage in a fair fight.”
Malithos: “Are you mad, Sevatar?”
Sev: “I don’t think so, I feel fine.”
Var Jahan: “How would you stop us from staying?”
Sev: “I’d kill you, of course. But let’s hope it doesn’t come to that. Emotions are running high and my spear is all the way over there.”
Sev: “This one was intelligent enough to sense my intent. He gets to live.”
Var Jahan: “Most generous of you.”
Sev: “I thought so, too.”
Var Jahan: Why did you kill them? Why did you want us dead? Fratricide, brother… has it really come to this?“
Sev: "It came to this the moment you three fools decided it was best to kill the Legion simply to expunge some imaginary stain on our imaginary honour.”
Var Jahan: “But the preparation…”
Sev: “I had a feeling the Kyroptera would need reorganising. I was right.”
Var Jahan: “You killed them because they disagreed with you. Sevatar, you are insane.”
Sev: “So I am often told.”
“I am done with obedience. To the abyss with Horus and his arrogant whims. He is no better than the Emperor.”
Trez: “Oh, and who might that have been?”
Sev: “I don’t recall his name.”
Trez: “I was given to understand all warriors of the Legiones Astartes were gifted with eidetic recall.”
Sev: “We are. I just never asked his name. I was rather preoccupied skinning him alive at the time.”
“That makes Commodore Yul the new fleet admiral. Offer him my insincere congratulations on a rank he earned purely by being the last naval officer standing.”
Trez: “Where should I go?”
Sev: “An intriguing question. The answer is that I don’t care. Go anywhere that isn’t here.”
Tovac: “You’re getting soft, Sev.”
Sev: “I have no idea what you mean. I’ve always been the very soul of kindness.”
Sev: “You will help me lead this broken Legion. You are now the Kyroptera of the Night Lords. Any questions?”
Tovac: “That’s your greeting? That’s how you welcome us?”
Sev: “Yes. Did you expect a speech?”
Tovac: “I don’t know what I expected.”
Sev: “Then why do you sound disappointed?”
“The casualty figures are on the wrong side of hilarious.”
Ophion: “Will you kill us if we disagree with this… division?”
Sev: “And they told me you weren’t a thinker, Captain Ophion.”
Curze: “I lead a Legion of foul-hearted wretches with no sense of loyalty to me, or to each other.”
Sev: “And yet, I am so very popular among my brothers. The mystery of it all fascinates me.”
Night Haunter: “I laughed when they said it, at the sheer absurdity of the idea. They knew exactly when to stop the killing of the weak, the treacherous and the corrupt within their bloodlines. I wouldn’t even know where to begin culling mine.”
Sev: “On any other day, sire, such words might hurt my feelings.”
Night Haunter: “There was no other way.”
Sev: “No? What other ways did you try?”
Night Haunter: “Sevatar…”
Sev: “Answer me, father. What politics of peace did you teach? What scientific and social illumination did you bring to this society? In your quest for a human utopia, what other ways did you try beyond eating the flesh of stray dogs and skinning people alive?”
Night Haunter: “It. Was. The. Only. Way.”
Sev: “The only way to do what? The only way to bring a population to heel? How then did the other primarchs manage it? How has world upon world managed it, without resorting to butchering children and broadcasting their screams across the planetary vox-net?”
Night Haunter: “Their world were never as… as serene as mine was.”
Sev: “And the serenity of yours died the second your back was turned. So tell me again how you succeeded. Tell me again how this all worked perfectly.”
Night Haunter: “You overstep your bounds, First Captain.”
Sev: “How can you lie to me like this? How can you lie to yourself? I stand here, inside your mind, witnessing a theatre of your own memories. Your way is the Eighth Legion way, now. But it has never been the only way. Just the easiest way.”
“This is Sevatar to the fleet. Let me be clear, brothers and sisters. I am not losing to these pious, deluded, rag-wearing whoresons twice in the same month.”
“I like the sound of that. They’ll likely name this manoeuvre after you, so let’s hope it works. No one wants their name attributed to a hilarious disaster.”
“Discipline may be dull, but it has undeniable military application.”
“This is even stupider than my idea.”
“I’ll be there in seven minutes. Eight if there’s resistance. Nine if the resistance is carrying bolters.”
Sev: “I think it may be time to escape very soon.”
Valzen: “How do you plan to do that?”
Sev: “Is that a real question?”
Valzen: “Of course it is. How do we get out of here?”
Sev: “The same way we do everything, brother. By killing whoever tries to stop us.”
“The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last and always.”
Which of the traitor primarchs is your favourite? Personally I'm a fan of Perturabo and his constant getting-lugged-with-the-shit-jobs
a different 40k anon, who’s you’re least favorite primarch and
personally I would rather prefer the Emperor as someone who genuinely
means well and does have good intentions but for a variety of reason’s
(lack of time, a ironically inhuman perspective due to his extreme age
and nature, and heightened need due to how dangerous chaos is) honestly
just plains cocks a lot of stuff up instead of ABD’s idea of him being
this borderline sociopathic bastard who see’s the primarchs as tools.
For making jokes, I can’t think of any better traitor primarch than Fulgrim, but yeah, Perturabo is probably my favorite traitor primarch, always looked over and slighted, never given the chance to craft and create, but always given the chance to have the fact that he doesn’t craft or create rubbed in his face. Least favorite primarch is probably Curze, who walks around wondering how much of a colossal ass-bucket he can be today.
I agree with you Anon, about liking the Emperor as being a flawed character rather than this monster as ABD portrays him. My current headcanon on the Emperor is that he genuinely didn’t want to tell people about chaos for the fear that some would go out and seek him (especially true with Curze or someone like Angron), that the fear of Chaos would empower Chaos, and that his inability to empathize given vastly differing life experiences facilitates a lot of his mistakes. To the Emperor, him telling Lorgar to stop worshiping him and preaching the cult might actually have been nigh-immediate, because what is time to a millenia-old super-being? His Webway project was kept in secret out of a desire to have the primarchs help build the Imperium as a stabilizing ideal, to feed into a sense of purpose and unity that would alleviate mankind’s primal fears that feed the Chaos gods, as well as the simple desire to stop using the Warp, but it stoked distrust and paranoia, and that feeds Tzeentech. It’s a much more compelling image, of a man who was trying to replace a cosmic force of WH40K’s universe, a task that might have been so mighty that even he would struggle to accomplish it. Chaos feeds on hunger, fear, anger, and desire, and replacing that with a counterbalancing force without removing free will, that’s an impossible problem.
Here is a question beyond your age, beyond YOUR FATHER'S age. A question that is what caused your bother Konrad Curze insane. A question that cause all the wars for Armageddon. Pineapple on pizza yes or no.