but man i love the tourney

some arthur dayne headcanons nobody asked for
  • he has his mother’s temper and sword training helps curb it but he’s a terrible liar so everyone can tell when he is Not Pleased
  • he squires for prince lewyn from whom he later gets his knighthood
  • he’s super awkward and short and not particularly handsome (things oberyn never fails to point out) until he’s like 14
  • he had mixed feelings about being named the sword of the morning because it was one of the only times he ever felt his father was proud of him but it had also been 80 years since the last sotm and he knows his father was antsy for house dayne to be notable again and arthur hates that it’s less to do with him as a son and more because he’s a convenient excuse

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anonymous asked:

If you're an unwed knight with no lady love you're courting, what's the protocol for naming a Queen of Love and Beauty at a tourney? Do you have to name the noblewoman of highest rank there, like the queen should she be attending? Do you honor the wife or daughters of the host? Should you crown a relative of yours like your mum? Can you throw the flower crown like a bouquet into a group of ladies? If you have a bastard daughter, is it going to get you killed to crown her?

Thanks for the question, Anon.

That’s a good question, and unfortunately one limited by our relatively small pool of known Queens of Love and Beauty. We don’t know how required it is for a knight to honor a woman at a tourney, or how often it actually happens. Only four women were ever named by victors of tourneys as Queens of Love and Beauty - then-Queen Naerys, named by her brother Aemon; then-Princess Rhaella, named by Bonifer Hasty; Lyanna Stark, named by Prince Rhaegar; and Lynesse Hightower, named by Jorah Mormont - though Rhaenyra makes a possible fifth (Gyldayn says that, after the melee at Maidenpool in 104 AC, Ser Criston Cole gave Rhaenyra “the victor’s laurel”, though the archmaester does not explicitly name her Queen of Love and Beauty, and whether the same chivalric rules apply to melees as to jousts are unsettled in our knowledge of Westeros).

That being said, I think a good place to start thinking about this question is the thought Barristan has in ADWD concerning his plans for if he had won at Harrenhal:

Rhaegar had chose Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, Barristan Selmy would have made a different choice. Not the queen, who was not present. Nor Elia of Dorne, though she was good and gentle; had she been chosen, much war and woe might have been avoided. His choice would has been a young maiden not long at court, one of Elia’s companions…though compared to Ashara Dayne, the Dornish princess was a kitchen drab.

There’s a pretty clear calculus in Barristan’s head when thinking about the woman he would have honored: “not the queen”, followed by “nor Elia of Dorne" - that is to say, the crown princess, and with Rhaella the two highest-ranking women in Westeros. Barristan knows the chivalric rules in and out - he had done well in and/or won at least five major jousts/melees before Harrenhal - and so I think we can take his calculus as some baseline on what a knight “should” be thinking when he decides to crown a woman as Queen of Love and Beauty.

It’s sensible, after all, to think first of naming the highest-ranking woman present as Queen of Love and Beauty. On the one hand, it’s part of the game of courtly love: the victorious knight worshiping from afar the unreachable, supreme beauty that is the lady of the castle; the lady herself, at the summit of all vassals’ desires, accepts the strange role reversal - the subservient man and the ruling woman - while still remaining untouchable. There is, however, a more practical benefit than merely this amusing ideal. To suggest that another woman exceeds the highest-ranking lady there upsets this courtly balance, and may subsequently be seen as an insult - and in a land where personal relationships and gestures are so key to political decisions, a courtly insult to a high-ranking woman might effectively shut out a knight from great lordly favor, especially depending on how high the woman’s rank and how lowly the knight.

Now, that being said, there is some room for maneuverability within that calculus, depending on both the knight himself and the context of the tourney. Would, for example, Barristan Selmy’s naming Ashara Dayne the Queen of Love and Beauty at Harrenhal have been cause for sensation, even with Princess Elia present? I tend to think not: Ashara might have come below the princess she served in rank (although not so far - she was still a lady companion to the crown princess, after all), but she was not betrothed to any man, and Barristan himself, as a member of the Kingsguard, was (at least supposedly) celibate and wed only to his duty, so it may have seemed only a chaste acknowledgement of Ashara's evident beauty (and, as I’ll talk about in a second, there can be strong romantic/sexual overtones to the naming of a Queen of Love and Beauty). Conversely, Bran’s remembered story about Aemon the Dragonknight suggests that either King Aegon IV himself or (perhaps if Aegon had gotten too obese to joust) his loyal noble flunkies desired to crown Aegon’s current mistress as Queen of Love and Beauty; this would ordinarily be a gross violation of chivalric rules - crowning a mistress in front of a wife and queen - but was permitted, even encouraged, in the lascivious court of the Unworthy King. We don’t know if Queen Aemma was present for that meleee at Maidenpool, but even if she had been it might not have seemed so unorthodox for Criston Cole to offer her daughter, rather than the queen herself, the laurel: Rhaenyra was the Realm’s Delight, the courtiers’ pet, doted upon by all, including her royal father; Criston, no fool, might have supposed that honoring the king’s much-favored daughter would be a means of advancing his own standing in the king’s eyes.  

As I mentioned, though, there can often be an implicit romantic/sexual message contained in the choice of the Queen of Love and Beauty. Winning that crown gives a knight the chance to single out a woman in a great crowd of nobility as particularly beautiful and desirable, and for an unmarried man, such a move might be the first step toward declaring an interest in betrothing himself to this woman. It’s no coincidence, I think, that Lord Ashford threw his infamous tourney to celebrate his maiden daughter’s thirteenth nameday (a traditional age for betrothals among highborn maids) and made her the initial queen of love and beauty: doubtless he was hoping that the eventual winner, instead of declaring a new queen, would confirm her as Queen of Love and Beauty, perhaps even think of her as a potential bride. Jorah’s case is a more obvious example, with Jorah not only singling out the Maiden of Oldtown for the honor but then using his winning to ask for her hand. Moreover, I think it needs little repeating how wildly rule-breaking Rhaegar’s actions were at the Tourney of Harrenhal: as crown prince and a seeming living embodiment of chivalry, he passed over his own wife (the crown princess, no less, to go back to the first point) and honored the fiancée of his future bannerman, the Lord of Storm’s End - perhaps appearing, to the onlookers, as though he were offering to make Lyanna his official mistress.  

In terms of some of the specific scenarios suggested … maybe, depending on what the champion wanted to say with his gesture. Tourneys, after all, are public stages for the nobility, a rare opportunity for a good number of different Houses to gather in a single place; at the moment when a Queen of Love and Beauty is named, a knight has a singular chance to have all eyes focused on him and his actions. Maybe, for example, a young (and unmarried) lord who had just come out of his regency would offer the crown to his mother, in testament to her importance as his regent (though some onlookers might wonder why he did not have his eye on any of the eligible women who would certainly be present). On a related note, I could see where Brandon Stark might have chosen his sister had he won the day at Harrenhal, and the choice not have been a scandaous one: with his Tully fiancée probably not present, the sister of whom he seemed to be fond was a natural choice, reinforcing the closeness of the Stark clan (and with Aemon, there is precedent for a brother honoring a sister). A bastard daughter would be much harder - a champion would be risking offending every woman of noble rank present by placing a bastard above them, even in the symbolic context of a tourney crowning - though in a very debauched court like that of Aegon IV (not his precisely, since Aegon seemed to care little for his bastard daughters, but one like it), perhaps such a gesture would not have seemed so scandalous. I doubt, however, that any knight would have merely tossed the crown into a crowd, again given the uniqueness of this opportunity to send a message (unless his only options were undesirable to him, but then I can think of better gestures he could make - say, piously declaring at his victory that he would grant the crown only to the Maiden, fairest of all women).

Suffice to say, I think the crowning of the Queen of Love and Beauty depends on both the knight and the context of the tourney. Who is he - as exalted as a prince, or as lowly as a hedge knight looking to make a name for himself as a tourney champion? Who is present among the ladies, and what is the champion’s relationship to the greatest of them? Is the champion married, and if so is his wife present? Most of all, what sort of message does that knight want to send to the assembled nobility? The answers to these questions would determine what he did with the all-important crown.

The Queen Regent (NFriel)

Elia/Rhaegar: An Analysis of their Doomed Romance(Part 1)

Hello! So this is the analysis that I had promised! This will be addressing the reasoning behind my belief that Rhaegar loved Elia romantically through analysis of what little we know about them. I know that it is a rather unpopular opinion so I just felt like I wanted to share my reasoning behind it. 

 I have decided to split up the analysis into different posts because otherwise it would just be way too long.

Part 2 is here: [x] and my response to @murderwifed, a massive and hugely biased hypocrite, can be found here : [x]

 This first part will be addressing the arguments most commonly used to deny the romance between Elia and Rhaegar. I decided to address this first just to get it out of the way so that when I do address reasons for romance between Elia and Rhaegar the train of thought will not be “yeah but ….. [insert argument that I will hopefully address in this post].” 

Okay!

The biggest most common arguments that I have heard are:

 1) If Rhaegar really loved Elia then Barristan would have told Dany. Instead Barristan used the word “fond.” And of course Dany thinks that Rhaegar did not love Elia. 

2) If Rhaegar really loved Elia then he wouldn’t have run away with Lyanna.

3) Rhaegar supposedly said Lyanna’s name when he died. 

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Cersei x female!reader...

Imagine being the sister to Rhaegar Targaryen and having a moment with Cersei Lannister after Rhaegar turns her down.

((I went ahead and put this one shot in pre-Robert’s Rebellion so I could have more free reign with it. Also, the request asked for smut but….once I got so far into it I liked how it was without the smut and, also, I have several other Cersei x Female!reader smut requests that after all of them they’d be about the same so…just some fluff and such for this one. ))

Word Count: 1,783

Warnings: None

“She’s at it again,” just though four words from your handmaiden’s mouth made you groan and turn to watch as Cersei Lannister, the daughter to your Father’s Hand of the King, heading across the court yard to where your brother, the Prince of Dragonstone, stood with Arthur Dayne and Jon Connington. “I don’t understand why she continues to do this. Everyone knows Prince Rhaegar and you are to be wed soon enough,”

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Descendants Jaylos Hospital AU
  • Jay is a professional Tourney player who gets into a horrific car accident that costs him his leg. In spite of all this, he remains cocky, friendly, and extremely active, though you can obviously tell that he’s hurting from the fact that he can’t play anymore and every time he’s reminded of his lost leg, it really hurts, more than that crash did.
  • Mal is the ER trauma surgeon who saves his life, and ends up becoming his doctor after she starts coordinating with
  • Carlos, the hospital’s local prosthetist who’s working on athlete/military level robot limbs to help the disabled out and just generally improve the world of artificial limbs for everybody.
  • Mal still has serious baggage from her mother practically forcing her into Medicine, and at the last second, she went from “money, fame, and prestige” cosmetic surgeon to trauma surgery and reconstructive surgery because she wants to help people that actually NEED surgery, not procedures that are born out of insecurity and negative self-images or simple vanity
  • Carlos is cheerful, happy, and playful, but he’s still also got TONS of trauma from his life growing up with Cruella, a still-famous fashion designer who treated her one-night stand mistake as an outright slave till he finally broke out of it with the help of
  • Evie, local rich girl and supermodel, altruist and MASSIVE donator to the hospital. The press and her enemies keep trying to paint her as shallow and doing it all for the positive PR but she really does care
  • The two of them have basically adopted Dude, one of the hospital’s therapy animals, as their own and Carlos spends as much time as he can in the legally sanctioned areas (can’t have pet dander or fur in sterile environments or allergic patients)
  • ONTO THE JAYLOS
  • Jay and Carlos first bond over a mutual love of sports and a discussion of if they can make a leg that is powerful enough to kick through six inches of concrete with one blow
  • Then they start bonding over Jay’s struggles to recover from the amputation, constantly testing and tweaking his leg, making it better and better
  • Then, when night comes, and they’re all dead tired from all the failures, they start discussing their lives, their interests, and discover they’re both from PRETTY terrible childhoods
  • In Jay’s case, he had a dad (Jafar) who was a pretty shady businessman and constantly used his son as leverage or a means to outright steal parts, and later on, hijack cars to chop shops until he got arrested, and one of the police officers noted his great athletic skill during the chase
  • Which is to say, he managed to outmaneuver a police car through a mix of running and parkour
  • Because he is also the son of the mayor and a pretty powerful, influential man (he’s Ben), he gets Jay bailed out and gives him a second chance by putting him on the station’s Tourney team
  • It all goes up from there to today until the car crash.
  • They don’t really realize they’re falling in love with each other until one day Evie casually swoons about how cute Carlos and him are together
  • Jay realizes it when Mal angrily yells at them to just furiously make out already, the unresolved sexual tension is killing her
  • The two of them suddenly become horribly awkward and flustered and adorable because oh wow I never knew how cute you were when you get riled up on robots or how muscular those abs of yours still are despite the lack of exercise these past few months
  • Mal and Evie take it upon themselves to be their fairy godmothers and hook them up
Bad For You - Jay x Evie

Okay so anon asked me this - and since they just asked for a Jay x Evie, I decided to combine it with another one that was suggested by evilette-in-training

[BTW evilette YOUR ‘AHEM AHEMS’ HAD ME ROLLING LOL THANK YOU FOR THAT :):):)]

So many Jay x Evie prompts in my ask! Like I said, I will definitely write them all! Just be patient with me :):):)


“That’s the bell!” Jay said enthusiastically, grabbing his bag and swinging it over his shoulder. Carlos was right on his heels, chattering about going to see Dude before the big tourney game tonight. Jay gave his little buddy a smile, rubbing the top of his head to mess up his hair a bit. Carlos didn’t even seem to notice as he bolted from the room and down the school hall towards the stables where Dude stays during the day. Jay casually leaned against the lockers right outside the door, waiting for the ladies.

“I got that too!” Evie exclaimed, practically skipping out into the hall.

“Well I didn’t. I wonder if there is a spell to change the answers…I’ll catch you guys later. I’m gonna meet up with Ben before the game!” Mal said, running off in the direction of Ben’s dorm while waving a hand behind her.

“I’d say we aced that test Evie,” a proud Doug said, throwing his arm around her for an awkward hug while trying to balance his books in his other arm.

Evie hugged back rather tightly, giggling and jumping up and down. She turned around after the brief contact with a dazed Doug and saw Jay leaning against the wall.

“Hey Jay! We were just discussing how well the test went! My study sessions with Doug are really paying off!” Evie squealed again, grabbing Doug’s hand and squeezing it while giving him a knock-out smile. Oblivious to the world around him with Evie in his sights, Doug simply smiled and stared at the dark haired goddess.

“Yeah tests aren’t my strong suit. Tourney is,” Jay said, trying his best to sound bored to hide the anger in his voice.

Evie immediately picked up on his somewhat sour mood. “What’s wrong, Jay?” She asked.

“Nothing. I have a game to get ready for. I’ll see you two love birds later or something,” Jay said, pushing off of the wall and storming down the hall.

“Love birds?!” Evie exclaimed. She stalked off the hall after him, brewing a storm of her own in Jay’s wake. Doug immediately started to follow, which made Evie whip around on her heels with a glare. “I know you mean well and want to help, Doug. But right now this is Island kid Jay. So let me handle this on my own, please,” Evie asked, an edge to her sultry voice.

“I–uh. Okay,” Doug said, immediately caving to her.

“I’ll see you later, at the game!” She called out to him as she continued half running after Jay.

“Jay!” Evie had finally caught up to him. He was almost to the tourney field. She was carrying her heels so that she didn’t break them trying to get to him before he disappeared into the locker room.

“JAY! WILL YOU STOP OR AT LEAST SLOW DOWN?!” Evie yelled at him. To her surprise, Jay halted, and then turned to face her. She came bearing down on him with heels in hand, looking fierce because of her long, dark hair billowing out behind her. “What the hell is your problem?!” She spat out, glaring up at him.

Jay looked at her, taking in Evie’s raw beauty. Her hair was a mess from running after him, and she had a fire in her eyes that she didn’t have as often since leaving the Island. Her makeup was perfect, of course. Tiny beads of sweat rolled down her exposed collarbones, going into hidden areas he wished wouldn’t remain covered forever.

“Jay,” Evie repeated. “What is up with you? You haven’t acted like that since we were on the Island.”

“It’s nothing, Evie,” Jay sighed heavily, turning away to look out across the field.

“Well something is up because you always call me Ev,” She stated plainly, crossing her arms and raising an eyebrow. Jay knew that look. That was the look that demanded an answer.

“It’s just…I’m no good,” Jay whispered, looking at his feet and putting a hand on the back of his head.

“What do you mean no good? Jay, I know choosing to do the right thing all of the time is tough, but you can’t just give up. You have to keep trying–”

“No,” Jay cut Evie off. “I meant that I’m no good for you.”

Evie looked stunned. Her eyes got really big, and her mouth popped open as she stared at Jay. He squirmed in her sight, looking from her to the ground and back to the field.

“What–what are you saying, exactly, Jay?” Evie asked, slowly unfolding her arms and looking at the ground.

“I’m bad for you. Doug isn’t. You should be with Doug. I can tell you like him,” Jay started.

“Jay, you don’t even–”

“Don’t deny it. I saw the way you acted around him today after the test. Anyone can see it Evie. You’ve been acting that way around him. You like him,” Jay said. It wasn’t a question, but an observation.

Evie pinched the bridge of her nose with her finger and thumb, closing her eyes. “Jay. Just because I act that way doesn’t mean that I like Doug,” She looked up at him then, letting her hands fall loosely to her sides. “Have you forgotten who raised me? How I was supposed to act around any guy no matter what to try and get him to like me enough to consider marriage? But only if it was to a Prince, mother always said,” Evie trailed off, lost in a memory of her past.

Her eyes snapped to Jay’s, and she took a deliberate step closer to him. “Just because I chose to be good doesn’t mean years of being told to behave that way are just going to wear off.”

Another step closer.

“You may think you are bad for me, Jay,” Evie said seductively. “But you don’t get to choose who I like.”

And with that, she took the last step separating them and kissed him full on the mouth. Jay made a surprised sound, but then greedily deepened the kiss and wrapped his arms around Evie.

They stood like that, lips locked and bodies entwined, until Ben happened along and broke them up.

“This is great, I mean like wow, but uhm, maybe–maybe you shouldn’t do that here? I mean we have a big game starting soon and uhm–J-Jay has to get ready. And uh…technically this isn’t allowed on school grounds but uhm it’s cool. I won’t tell anyone. Except maybe Mal, but I mean she figured this was coming anyways…” Ben rambled.

“We get it dude. Just got lost in the moment,” Jay smiled, winking at Ben.

“Yeah, well, uhm—okay!” Ben clapped his hands together. “Let’s go get ready for this game, huh?” He asked, looking from Evie to Jay with an awkward smile plastered to his face.

Jay shoved him aside, turning back to blow a kiss at Evie. “See ya after, Ev!” He smiled, giving her a wink and a playful lip bite. Evie smiled, waving at the two as they walked towards the field. Evie turned around and saw Mal walking up to her.

“So did I call it or what?” Mal smirked, taking a bite of a strawberry.

“Shut up,” Evie laughed, rolling her eyes and lightly pushing her best friend. They walked arm in arm towards the tourney field along with the rest of the school that was pouring out onto the grounds.

“Took long enough,” Mal said under her breath.

“What was that?” Evie said, pretending to sound annoyed.

“You heard me, it took you two long enough to realize your feelings for each other! Ben and I figured it out weeks ago,” Mal informed her.

“Oh so now you’re an expert in dating?” Evie teased.

“I happen to know a lot about it, thank you very much,” Mal teased right back. “Now, let’s cheer on your man! Haha!”

archiveofourown.org
A love for the ages - QuillyMartell1 - A Song of Ice and Fire & Related Fandoms [Archive of Our Own]
An Archive of Our Own, a project of the Organization for Transformative Works
By Organization for Transformative Works

Lady Starks reply to the lords upon their lamenting was heard far and wide and came to define the next generation of women’s view of marriage, “If I shall have to spend the rest of my days with a man by my side, then it shall be a man of my choosing. No matter rank, name or profession”. What followed was that the the lords of the north, as well as the south, threw more balls and tourneys than usual. All included an invitation to the Lady Stark, and when she attended there was never a shortage of lords pushing their son, or themselves, towards her. All eager to take the place of lord of Winterfell.

Sansa won’t get married against her will XD

EXPLANATION: So there’s this rugby tourney in montana and it’s comparable to a rugby version of burning man since there’s so much sex, drugs, beer, and rugby. This dude drunk tried to punch my friend the previous night while wasted, she easily dodged it. But he came up to us at the party and asked her to punch him. She said no, but I said sure. I mean hell, when else could I do this? Also I haven’t fully decked anyone ever. I do have 12 years of martial arts training though. So I chose the meat of his bearded cheek, kisser it, then decked it. Then he asked if I punched him yet. 😂 anyways, enjoy!

Sansa Stark and "Good Queen" Alysanne Targaryen parallels

Ok so I read this post the other day and was really intrigued by the theory. Obviously, as the big Jonsa trash I am, I decided to search for yet another set of parallels. Let me tell you, I was not disappointed.

The first and most obvious parallel is their names. Alysanne and Sansa/Alayne are very similar in terms of writing and pronunciation both (regardless of your accent, the syllables are alike all the same).

  • Alayne + Sansa = Aly San Ne = Alysanne

Next come their physical appearance. Here is a passage describing Alysanne:

  • Tall and straight, unbowed by time, she had high cheekbones, clear blue eyes. […] Alysanne was slim of waist and small of breast, with a long neck, a fair complexion, a high forehead. - So Spake Martin, June 2006

.And here are some describing Sansa:

  • “And at Winterfell, Sansa was a little girl with auburn hair. My daughter is a maiden tall and fair, and her hair is chestnut. Men see what they expect to see, Alayne.“ - AFFC, Alayne I
  • Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. - AGOT, Arya I* “You have your mother’s eyes. Honest eyes, and innocent. Blue as a sunlit sea. When you are a little older, many a man will drown in those eyes.“ - AFFC, Sansa I
  • Sansa Stark looked especially lovely this morning, though her face was as pale as milk- ACOK, Tyrion VI

The similarities are not only physical though, for these women also share some personality traits. 

  • His queen, Alysanne, was also well loved throughout the realm, being both beautiful and high-spirited, as well as charming and keenly intelligent. - TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Jaehaerys I

Alysanne was a good and well loved queen which is exactly the kind of monarch Sansa aspires to be.

  • "The only way to keep your people loyal is to make certain they fear you more than they do the enemy.” “I will remember, Your Grace,” said Sansa, though she had always heard that love was a surer route to the people’s loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I’ll make them love me- ACOK, Sansa VI

She is charming and excell at courtesies, which help her win the respect and sympathy of the people around her despite them, for the most part, being her and her family’s ennemies.

  • Tyrion led Sansa around the yard, to perform the necessary courtesies. She is good at this, he thought, as he watched her tell Lord Gyles that his cough was sounding better, compliment Elinor Tyrell on her gown, and question Jalabhar Xho about wedding customs in the Summer Isles. His cousin Ser Lancel had been brought down by Ser Kevan, the first time he’d left his sickbed since the battle. He looks ghastly. Lancel’s hair had turned white and brittle, and he was thin as a stick. Without his father beside him holding him up, he would surely have collapsed. Yet when Sansa praised his valor and said how good it was to see him getting strong again, both Lancel and Ser Kevan beamed. She would have made Joffrey a good queen and a better wife if he’d had the sense to love her. - ASOS, Tyrion VIII

Beautiful,

  • “At the Hand’s tourney, don’t you remember? You rode a white courser, and your armor was a hundred different kinds of flowers. You gave me a rose. A red rose. You threw white roses to the other girls that day.” It made her flush to speak of it. “You said no victory was half as beautiful as me." Ser Loras gave her a modest smile. ”I spoke only a simple truth, that any man with eyes could see.“ - ASOS, Sansa I

well-educated (the most expected trait in a queen)

  • The queen took Sansa’s hand in both of hers. "Child, do you know your letters?” Sansa nodded nervously. She could read and write better than any of her brothers, although she was hopeless at sums. - AGOT, Sansa IV
  • Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. - AGOT, Arya I

and intelligent.

  • Sansa hesitated a moment. “You gave Lord Nestor the Gates of the Moon to be certain of his support." "I did,” Petyr admitted, “but our rock is a Royce, which is to say he is overproud and prickly. […] She nodded. "The signature … you might have had Lord Robert put his hand and seal to it, but instead …” “… I signed myself, as Lord Protector. Why?” “So … if you are removed, or … or killed …" ”… Lord Nestor’s claim to the Gates will suddenly be called into question. I promise you, that is not lost on him. It was clever of you to see it. Though no more than I’d expect of mine own daughter.“ - AFFC, Sansa I

Both started to occupy an important political seat at a young age, Alysanne as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms at 14 and Sansa/Alayne as the de facto Lady of the Eyrie at 13 (/Lady of Winterfell in s6 at 18) and held/holds some influence over their male counterparts (Jaehaerys/Littlefinger and Sweetrobin(/Jon in s6)).

  • Some said that she ruled the realm as much as the king did, and there was some truth to that. It was at her behest that King Jaehaerys at last forbade the right of the First Night, despite the many lords who jealously guarded it. - TWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Jaehaerys I
  • It was clever. The tourney, the prizes, the winged knights, it had all been her own notion. […] And no sooner did she tell Petyr her idea than he went out and made it happen- TWOW, Alayne I* “Any child of ours would be baseborn. Only a trueborn child of House Arryn can displace Ser Harrold as your heir. My father will find a proper wife for you, some highborn girl much prettier than me. You’ll hunt and hawk together, and she’ll give you her favor to wear in tournaments. Before long, you will have forgotten me entirely.” “I won’t!” “You will.** You must.” Her voice was firm, but gentle. “The Lord of the Eyrie can do as he likes. Can’t I still love you, even if I have to marry her?** Ser Harrold has a common woman. Benjicot says she’s carrying his bastard.”_ - TWOW, Alayne I _

You think it’s a lot already? Wait to read the last two parallels. 

Alysanne had five siblings (Rhaena, Aegon, Viserys, Jaehaerys and Vaella) and so does Sansa (Robb, Jon, Arya, Bran and Rickon).

Alysanne married her eldest surviving brother, King Jaehaerys I Targaryen. Jon Snow is Sansa's eldest surviving "brother”, the King in the North as well as a Targaryen whose birth name might be Jaehaerys (the Ashford Tourney Theory goes hand-in-hand with this one).

tl:dr: Alysanne Targaryen and Sansa Stark:

  • Have names who sound alike (Alayne + Sansa = Alysanne).* Have high cheekbones, blue eyes and a fair complexion. 
  • Are tall.
  • Are beautiful.
  • Are charming and intelligent. 
  • Inspire love rather than fear.
  • Are influencial rulers/advisors.
  • Have strong ties to the Night’s Watch (s6 only for Sansa).
  • Have five siblings.
  • Married/might marry their eldest surviving brother, a Targaryen (as per the Ashford Tourney Theory).

anonymous asked:

If they were in love, it was extremely secret, meaning there was no way Barristan knew. Rhaegar was dutiful to his wife, if he had not been blinded by love, why would he crown Lyanna at the tourney; he's an intelligent man and he knows what that action means. He left his wife in KL where Jamie could keep them safe, as his fever dream reveals: “I left my wife and children in your hands.” Him saying Lyanna's name before he dies speaks of love, not of a need for a child, ANYONE can see that. [end]

He could have crowned Lyanna for a number of reasons, but the most popular one is because she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree. The theory goes that when his father sent him to find the KotLT, Rhaegar found Lyanna instead, possibly hiding her armor. He keeps her secret safe and the KotLT “disappears”, but since Lyanna cannot receive any honors for her impressive jousting, he instead crowns her by way of “honoring” her for besting men in the joust. The notion that he “loved” her implies some weird love at first sight nonsense that GRRM hates.

Rhaegar leaving Elia and his children solely to Jaime is literally the most irresponsible thing I’ve ever heard of. Jaime was only 16/17 at the time. He wasn’t even with Elia when she died; he was with the king, as Kingsguard are expected to be. Jaime did no ~protecting~ of Elia and her children in any way, shape, or form. Sorry.

And no, Rhaegar’s saying Lyanna’s name before he dies is proof of nothing (and that’s IF he said Lyanna’s name). There could be a 100 reasons for him saying her name: apology, concern, fear, remembrance, pity, etc etc. Lyanna was carrying his child before he left for KL and The Trident. He knew that if he died, he could no longer protect her and it would all be up to his knights. So to say Lyanna before he died could mean that he was now concerned for her fate. I see it from POV that Rhaegar sees himself as a “Protector”. So when he dies, who’s going to take care of Lyanna now? Who’s going to ensure that his unborn child lives? Will Lyanna survive? Will his child survive? What will happen then?

Rhaegar’s saying her name is, for me, further proof that he is actually pretty selfless. And yes, I say selfless, because none of Rhaegar’s actions were for his own benefit. He saw a prophecy that she sought to fulfill, a prophecy that called for a prince that would literally save the world, and his “dutiful, determined” self was willing to make countless sacrifices to make it happen. Unfortunately, those sacrifices involved harming other people (though I don’t think he could have predicted the deaths of Elia and his children) and starting a war. But this is the typical, prophecy obsessed Rhaegar that had been confirmed by Aemon and Barristan. I really don’t think Rhaegar cared about his own well-being. He might have even expected to die in pursuit of the prophecy. And I think he was entirely okay with that.

You can have whatever view you want on Rhaegar, tbh, and I’m not going to vilify you for it, but I will try and warn against romanticizing Rhaegar/Lyanna and making that your canon. Because a 23 year old man running off with a 15 year old girl should make your skin crawl. That he likely did not confess to her that he wanted her only for the prophecy should upset you, that in order to get her consent he likely had to lie and spin tales of love so she could convince herself that running away is not a bad thing. The girl who wanted freedom ended up being trapped in a tower with three knights to ensure that she doesn’t escape. Her brother and father died while she was thousands of miles away from them (think of Sansa in KL after the Red Wedding; so far away from the tragedy, and she was haunted nightly by it). Lyanna ended up pregnant and alone, giving birth with no one to care for her while the fate of her brother’s life hung in the balance in a battle outside, that she did not see a single member of her family for a year until Ned came to her on her deathbed. She couldn’t even have more than a few minutes with her newborn son, and yet she makes Ned promise that he took care of him.

Lyanna is a Stark. Family comes first; you cannot tell me for a single second that Lyanna enjoyed being in the ToJ with Rhaegar longer than a few months (even if Rhaegar never told her about Brandon and Rickard or the war, how long is the wild, free spirited Stark girl going to enjoy her cage?).

Rhaegar traps Lyanna, forsakes Elia, and dies for his cause. It was worth it to him, but do you really think it was to anyone else? I don’t think anyone cared for the prophecy or even understood it as well as Rhaegar (and Aemon, maybe). But everyone dies for it anyways. So it goes.

steamboatclusie  asked:

I've been waiting for the next book in ASOIAF to come out and have been going over "what ifs" out of boredom. In one of Ned's chapters, Renly mentions something about Margery looking like Lyanna and it had something to do with Renly attempting to sway Robert somehow? And I think he brings it up again when he's talking to Stannis in the second book. I was hoping you could shed some light on Renly's plot. I was confused as to his endgame with that plan. Opinions?

I could have sworn I’ve answered this already, but it’s not in my posts at all. (edit: oh right, it was on someone else’s blog.) Anyway, the text you’re referring to:

Ned was not sure what to make of Renly, with all his friendly ways and easy smiles. A few days past, he had taken Ned aside to show him an exquisite rose gold locket. Inside was a miniature painted in the vivid Myrish style, of a lovely young girl with doe’s eyes and a cascade of soft brown hair. Renly had seemed anxious to know if the girl reminded him of anyone, and when Ned had no answer but a shrug, he had seemed disappointed. The maid was Loras Tyrell’s sister Margaery, he’d confessed, but there were those who said she looked like Lyanna. “No,” Ned had told him, bemused. Could it be that Lord Renly, who looked so like a young Robert, had conceived a passion for a girl he fancied to be a young Lyanna? That struck him as more than passing queer.

—AGOT, Eddard VI

“Have you seen Mace Tyrell’s boy? The Knight of Flowers, they call him. Now there’s a son any man would be proud to own to. Last tourney, he dumped the Kingslayer on his golden rump, you ought to have seen the look on Cersei’s face. I laughed till my sides hurt. Renly says he has this sister, a maid of fourteen, lovely as a dawn…”

—Robert Baratheon, AGOT, Eddard VII

Sighing, Renly half turned in the saddle. “What am I to do with this brother of mine, Brienne? He refuses my peach, he refuses my castle, he even shunned my wedding…”
“We both know your wedding was a mummer’s farce. A year ago you were scheming to make the girl one of Robert’s whores.”
“A year ago I was scheming to make the girl Robert’s queen,” Renly said, “but what does it matter? The boar got Robert and I got Margaery.”

—ACOK, Catelyn III

It’s pretty straightforward. Renly didn’t care for the stranglehold the Lannisters had on his brother and the kingdom, what with Tywin being owed millions of gold, Cersei as queen, and Lannister appointees everywhere (including two of Robert’s squires). Renly was also aware of how Robert and Cersei didn’t get along, and it’s also very likely that he suspected the truth about the parentage of Cersei’s children. At the very least he probably guessed their father was not Robert.

So when Renly met his lover Loras’s younger sister, and saw how pretty she was… and he knew that the Tyrells were one of the few families rich and powerful enough to stand up to the Lannisters… well, he planned to bring Margaery to King’s Landing so that she would become Robert’s mistress. With all probability he could even convince Robert to set aside Cersei and take Margaery as queen instead. (Basically an Anne Boleyn plot.) So Renly had this portrait of Margaery painted, and told Robert about her beauty, and even said that she might look like Lyanna, to further appeal to Robert. (Note “a maid of fourteen” is what Lyanna was when Robert last saw her.)

But before the plan could really get moving and Margaery could come to King’s Landing, Cersei’s own plan went into action, and Robert was killed by the boar. So after fruitlessly trying to convince Ned to side with him, Renly got the hell out of King’s Landing before the Lannister coup, went to Highgarden where he married Margaery, and then declared himself king, with all the wealth and armies of the Reach supporting him.

I hope that helps!

anonymous asked:

tbh, I always subscribed to Brandon being the father of Ashara's stillborn. But your thoughts on Ned x Ashara have made me reconsider. It creates a more tragic and complicated tale, while adding depth to Ned. I also like how it makes Jon not just Lyanna's ghost to Ned, but the bastard that he did have (and lost). By giving Jon that identity (Ned Stark's Bastard) he is almost repenting for his tragic past.

That is a big part of why I take this position: the Daynes have absolutely zero reason to give a shit about Brandon Stark - a betrothed man who was never going to take care of Ashara when she got pregnant, a man they likely never met given the timeline of his capture vis-a-vis the Tourney of Harrenhal. 

But Ned’s story is undeniably tragic - star-crossed lovers divided by civil war; True Love vs. Family, Duty, Honor;  untimely death caused by miscommunication, etc. So you have a sense of why the Daynes would care, and why Ned would freak out in AGOT when he hears Ashara’s name - remember, she doesn’t threaten R+L=J. If anything, Ashara’s a good smokescreen to distract people from the truth. But Ned gets uncharacteristically emotional about it, I think because it hits on a different sore spot.

And I agree, there’s almost no way that Ned wouldn’t have seen a parallel between his dead daughter and his “bastard son” coming into and out of the world so closely together. 

anonymous asked:

What are your thoughts and speculations on Rhaegar and Lyanna's story? Do you think the fandom romanticizes it too much? Personally, I think they do, and I'm kind of hoping that it wasn't all love and flowers and more of a tragedy, because those events inadvertently caused a bloody war and thousands of deaths.

Unpopular Opinion:

Oh, I know the fandom romanticizes it. It’s not a question of whether or not they do, but by how much or to what degree? After all, when you simplify the relationship between the two to just great love apparently, you must be romanticizing it just because there are so many other different factors.

For starters, you’re ignoring some really basic things if you think that Rhaegar/Lyanna was basically a love story.

Rhaegar was already looking for a woman to fulfill his “three heads of the dragon” fixation. His wife, Elia Martell, was too sick to have a third child. He had become convinced that his kids would fulfill the prophecy and be the three heads of the dragon. He had two children by Elia, an Aegon and a Rhaenys, but he needed the third: Visenya.

“The dragon has three heads,” she sighed. “Do you know what that means, Jorah?”

“Your Grace? The sigil of House Targaryen is a three-headed dragon, red on black.”
“I know that. But there are no three-headed dragons.”
“The three heads were Aegon and his sisters.”
“Visenya and Rhaenys,” she recalled….

“I remember,” Dany said sadly. “They murdered Rhaegar’s daughter as well, the little princess. Rhaenys, she was named, like Aegon’s sister. There was no Visenya, but he said the dragon has three heads.” Dany, ACoK

We know, we see through Dany’s vision, that Rhaegar actively desired and sought to have a third child- though his wife was no longer capable- to be the Visenya of the three headed dragon trio. 

Visenya is a posthumous character with no flashbacks (unlike say Rhaegar and Lyanna,) so her personality is a little more open ended in just the books. But we do know she was passionate, temperamental, and a warrior. GRRM describes her as Aegon’s “warrior wife”. And we know she wielded a Valyrian steel sword, Dark Sister. Here’s some of what GRRM says:

Aegon’s eldest sister was a warrior more comfortable in ringmail than in silk. She wielded a Valyrian steel sword called Dark Sister. She was described as having a harsh beauty and was reputed to have dabbled in sorcery [source]

Harsh beauty? Perhaps something like this?

Lyanna Stark. The northern girl had a wild beauty, as he recalled.Kevan Lannister, ADWD

Ned, who is our best bet at an accurate description of her though still not sure, describes Lyanna as being

“You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert,” Ned told him. “You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath.” 

and

“Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. ‘The wolf blood,’ my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave.” Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. “Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her.”

“Lyanna was beautiful,” Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya.

“She was,” Eddard Stark agreed, “beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time.” 

So we have from a more unbiased source (Kevan) that Lyanna had a wild beauty- which seems rather similar to having a harsh beauty. It’s a nontypical attractiveness. Then we also know that Lyanna liked to carry swords and had “iron underneath” and was “willful”. 

All of this paints a picture of what was almost certainly the closest thing high nobility at the time had to a Visenya Targaryen. 

Rhaegar was definitely drawn to Lyanna because of that. He was searching for someone to give him a Visenya and found another atypically beautiful, high stature woman who was a warrior.

After all, all indications say that Rhaegar met Lyanna because she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree.

“The Knight of the Laughing Tree had vanished. The king was wroth, and even sent his son the dragon prince to seek the man, but all they ever found was his painted shield, hanging abandoned in a tree. it was the dragon prince who won that tourney in the end.” Meera in Bran, ASoS

So Rhaegar comes upon Lyanna, dressed in armor and having just beaten three men in a fight. She was the perfect choice for someone to give him a Visenya. 

Now, I didn’t mention love at all because if there was love on either or both sides, it played no part in how it started. Rhaegar wanted someone to give him a Visenya, that was why he was looking for any woman at all despite being married really. He was looking for someone- and Lyanna was who he found. It was what initially drew him to her. 

So people failing to account for how the desire for a child is what chiefly motivated Rhaegar (even if he did fall in love with her afterwards) makes it a romanticization of the tale. Of course, there are several other factors that people ignore as well in this.  

Lyanna gives no indications that she is a romantic. Ever. What we do get from her in our very few moments where we see her words/actions and not someone’s opinion on her is that she doesn’t believe that love is some panacea. 

“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature.” 

What’s interesting about this beyond the obvious (that she’s practical about love’s impact on people and not romanticizing it) is that she is talking about how her fiancee won’t stay faithful is highly dismissive, negative terms…

which begs the wuestion of why she would then go runaway with a married man. It seems to be something that she doesn’t take lightly (even though as Ned points out, she and Robert hadn’t been betrothed yet.)

So why would she?

Well, there are many factors here that need to be remembered. 

  1. She is not keen on marrying Robert. We know she was sure he would never be faithful to her and was not overly positive on him in a general sense though she was likely not as hard on him and hateful as some fans believe. But overall, she doesn’t want to marry him.
  2. Rhaegar is the heir to the Iron Throne. He is in a position of power over her, and over everyone really, at this time. Lyanna’s considered willfull, so I doubt it’d be something of an order that she was hasty to obey because he was her prince. But if he were to say something like “If you come with me, I’ll make sure you never have to marry Robert or you can do x, y, z”, maybe she would. Lyanna probably felt stifled with her betrothal and her father’s rules (like what Ned implies when he says “Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it”.) But even not, the authority that Rhaegar has over Lyanna, chiefly the differences in their power (man vs. woman in patriarchal society, prince/royal family vs. lady, adult vs. child) all easily could/would have influenced her.
  3. Which brings me to something often forgotten: Lyanna was a child. Rhaegar was already 23, well into adulthood, when he approached the only 15 year old Lyanna. That’s why Ned describes Lyanna as a “child-woman” when she dies a year later. At the time of the kidnapping/running away/whatever, Lyanna was a child. I can’t stress this enough because people act like she was mature enough or in control enough to make decisions. Lyanna was a girl who just by nature of being a Stark and living in Winterfell (she wasn’t fostered) means that she was considerably sheltered and innocent. So the fact that she was so young definitely played a role in everything. Children are inclined to listen to their elders, even ones considered willful (think of how Arya’s first instinct was to follow the Lannister men when they tried to take her and only Syrio stopped her.) While the “willful” ones might make impulsive decisions (like the “wolf’s blood” characters,) they don’t just throw off authority all the time. 
There is so much we don’t know. Lyanna and Rhaegar are primarily posthumous and unseen characters. You can’t really trust people perceptions of them. Like of course Kevan would think Lyanna was less attractive than Cersei while Ned and Robert find her to be super beautiful. And of course Robert would paint Rhaegar as an evil rapist… while of course Jon Connington would praise him. And of course Dany’s opinion means less than nothing since she was neither alive at the time of Rhaegar’s life not unbiased. Plus, very few people, if any, would tell her the truth anyway- she didn’t even know that her father was called the Mad King for a long time. Point is that everyone’s biased and no one has the full story really, unless Lyanna told Ned everything as she was dying and likely giving birth (clearly preoccupied,) which is highly unlikely. And even then, except with character’s in POV, we don’t actually know the truth. Take Ned Stark (who is apparently a traitor to Robert according to the smallfolk and some nobility,) Tyrion Lannister (who supposedly was pure evil and corrupted/killed Joffrey,) Daenerys Targaryen (supposedly the next Mad King, evil killer or whatever,) ect. A lot of characters have reputations that aren’t deserved or exaggerated. You can’t trust everything or anything. Ned has interesting views on Rhaegar. People seem to think they’re positive for some reason, but they appear inconclusive. Here’s all of them:

This was the boy he had grown up with, he thought; this was the Robert Baratheon he’d known and loved. If he could prove that the Lannisters were behind the attack on Bran, prove that they had murdered Jon Arryn, this man would listen. Then Cersei would fall, and the Kingslayer with her, and if Lord Tywin dared to rouse the west, Robert would smash him as he had smashed Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident. He could see it all so clearly. 

Here we have Ned glorifying Rhaegar’s death. When he’s thinking of the good, positive Robert, the “boy he had grown up with”, he’s fantasizing about Robert “smashing” the Lannisters (who he hates) the way he “smashed” Rhaegar. 

He’s not lamenting an innocent soul lost to war or unjustly murdered- though he thinks that many times of Rhaegar’s kids, not Rhaegar himself- he’s talking about Robert killing Rhaegar as something good. 

For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not. 

This tells us little to nothing. Rhaegar not frequenting brothels could be something good and indicating Lyanna wasn’t taken forcefully… or it could be pointing out that Rhaegar was not the type to like whores. Lyanna was not a whore, and it’s basically saying that Ned assumes (because he’s not sure) that Rhaegar didn’t like brothels (not women, but lower class women you pay for.)

And the only other time that he thinks of Rhaegar really (he mostly focuses on the battles of Rhaegar’s children) is as he’s dying.

Yet when the jousting began, the day belonged to Rhaegar Targaryen. The crown prince wore the armor he would die in: gleaming black plate with the three-headed dragon of his House wrought in rubies on the breast. A plume of scarlet silk streamed behind him when he rode, and it seemed no lance could touch him. Brandon fell to him, and Bronze Yohn Royce, and even the splendid Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning.

Robert had been jesting with Jon and old Lord Hunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing Ser Barristan in the final tilt to claim the champion’s crown. Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty’s laurel in Lyanna’s lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost.

Ned Stark reached out his hand to grasp the flowery crown, but beneath the pale blue petals the thorns lay hidden. He felt them clawing at his skin, sharp and cruel, saw the slow trickle of blood run down his fingers, and woke, trembling, in the dark.

Promise me, Ned, his sister had whispered from her bed of blood. She had loved the scent of winter roses.

I almost didn’t include this since it tells us nothing really, but I didn’t want to fail to share something. We see here that Ned thinks highly of Rhaegar’s fighting skills, but that means nothing in terms of his actual opinion on Rhaegar. But overall we get nothing on Rhaegar from Ned here, and we just learn that Ned is disturbed by the events- which makes sense- and that “all the smiles died” when Rhaegar gave Lyanna the crown. He describes the crown that Rhaegar gives Lyanna in his hallucinatory state as a “flowery crown, but beneath the pale blue petals the lorns lay hidden” and then goes on to call them “sharp and cruel.”

Metaphorically, this could be Ned actually describing Rhaegar (or what Rhaegar offered Lyanna) as appearing benign and “flowery” and giving a gift, but actually being “sharp”, “cruel”, “thorny”, “clawing at” the skin, and causing him/Lyanna to bleed.

I don’t want to assume that’s the right interpretation, however, since it could just be the fact that in the end, Rhaegar did cost Lyanna her life. So of course all he offered her led to blood. So it could have less to do with Rhaegar and more to do with the end result.

However, it’s clearly not a positive thing.

Ned seems ambivalent. He definitely doesn’t view Rhaegar’s death as a bad, undeserved thing (see the first quote about Ned’s feelings) but he also doesn’t hate Rhaegar like Robert, though his focus in his thoughts is that Robert’s hatred is extreme and too long lasting, not undeserved and wrong. In fact, he doesn’t think of Rhaegar at all really. When Robert talks about Rhaegar, Ned doesn’t think much of anything. 

That could easily be that Ned doesn’t want to think of the person that is connected to the death of his sister who he loved so much and is pained when he thinks of her. Everything about Rhaegar is connected to bad memories for Ned really.

The point is that people seem to assume that Ned not hating on Rhaegar overtly in his thoughts equates to him thinking positively of him, which is not the same thing. He could (and likely was) be repressing all the horrors of that. He’s clearly haunted by Lyanna. Also, more importantly, I think people highly overestimate what Ned knows. Until the ToJ, he definitely believed Lyanna was an unwilling captive. Afterwards, well, who knows what was said. Having someone’s kid does not mean that Lyanna wasn’t kidnapped, was willing, or wasn’t seduced/coerced in some way. Ned probably has mixed feelings on everything to be honest.

Regardless of all that, Ned thinks of Lyanna as a child when she died. So he certainly did not think highly of Rhaegar for taking her, it makes no matter if she came with him or not.

Oh, and people should stop making assumptions here:

Under Harren’s roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen. The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head.” Bran, ASoS

It’s a “sad song” that Rhaegar apparently sung to everyone, not specifically Lyanna, and was likely not even a love song. It was something sad that’s all we know. Arya cried all the freaking time in books 1-3 (she’s lost some of it now though she still thinks of crying and cries occasionally.) No one made assumptions about that. And one of the arguably least romantic and idealistic female characters also cried over a song:

The whole war band was singing as they rode.

In stone halls they burn their great fires, in stone halls they forge their sharp spears. Whilst I walk alone in the mountains, with no true companion but tears.
They hunt me with dogs in the daylight, they hunt me with torches by night.
For these men who are small can never stand tall, whilst giants still walk in the light. Oooooooh, I am the LAST of the giants, so learn well the words of my song.

For when I am gone the singing will fade, and the silence shall last long and long.

There were tears on Ygritte’s cheeks when the song ended.
“Why are you weeping?” Jon asked. “It was only a song.”  Jon, ASoS

I don’t get why people make huge assumptions about that. If it were stated to be a love song, then maybe I’d get it. But a sad song makes a young child/girl sniffle is hardly indicative of anything to me. 

In fact, Lyanna isn’t even the only person to cry over his music.

Seventeen and new to knighthood, Rhaegar Targaryen had worn black plate over golden ringmail when he cantered onto the lists. Long streamers of red and gold and orange silk had floated behind his helm, like flames. Two of her uncles fell before his lance, along with a dozen of her father’s finest jousters, the flower of the west. By night the prince played his silver harp and made her weep. Cersei, AFFC

Cersei “weeps” (more than a “sniffle”) over Rhaegar’s music. Barristan also implies that Rhaegar was just a brilliant harpist who made most people cry.

"When you heard him play his high harp with the silver strings and sing of twilights and tears and the death of kings, you could not but feel that he was singing of himself and those he loved.”

“What of the Usurper? Did he play sad songs as well?” Dany, ASoS

He was by all accounts a beautiful musician who seemed to only play sad songs (ones that were having to do with “twilights and tears and the deaths of kings” but not necessarily love,) so obviously people cried over it.

Jon Connington also outright stated every woman cried.

At the welcoming feast, the prince had taken up his silver-stringed harp and played for them. A song of love and doom, Jon Connington recalled, and every woman in the hall was weeping when he put down the harp. ADWD

Lyanna “sniffling” (interesting considering weeping is the primarily used term for Cersei and “every woman in the hall” but whatever) over a song of his tells us nothing except that Lyanna was likely emotional. That seemed obvious considering we know she had “the wolf’s blood” which describes people who are temperamental. 

So the fandom 100% romanticizes the story. It wasn’t a good, loving story in the slightest. If there were love, which there might have been, it was not the cause or impetus for this. Rhaegar definitely used Lyanna. That’s not debatable. He wanted a child from her, he pursued her for it. If he came to love her and admire her (which we don’t know,) then he’s still an adult (of considerable more authority) using a child against the wishes of her family (her father/parents.)

People can do things, can go through the motions, but not have any control. After all, Sansa was 13 (only 2 years younger) and forced to go through with a wedding because of the crown. We know she didn’t want it, many people probably assumed the same (since Tyrion isn’t desirable,) but she swore her life and bound herself to Tyrion in front of people. She legally married him. She went through all the motions herself after attempting to run once in private. 

“You can’t make me.”

“Of course we can. You may come along quietly and say your vows as befits a lady, or you may struggle and scream and make a spectacle for the stableboys to titter over, but you will end up wedded and bedded all the same.” … 

The ceremony passed as in a dream. Sansa did all that was required of her. Sansa, ASoS

Now, who would say she really had a choice though? Differences in power matter, just because someone doesn’t drag you and hold a gun to your head to do something doesn’t mean you’re actually willing. And especially when children are dealing with adults.

Even if Lyanna thought she was making her own choices, it wasn’t an informed choice of someone in equal power. If Lyanna wanted to go with Rhaegar, she still wasn’t acting from a vantage point of someone with control, full knowledge, equal power (as a child vs. the heir of her kingdom who’s adult,) which is not something that should be overlooked but is. 

Their whole story was a tragedy. From Elia Martell and her kids to the war that was inadvertently sparked because of them (meaning that the Mad King and a lot of other factors meant this was building for a while, but it began with Lyanna/Rhaegar) to Lyanna’s death at such a young age in her brother’s arms. It was not a good, happy story. There may have been love, but there were many other factors at play (the three headed dragon and Lyanna not wanting to marry Robert.) In fact, Lyanna almost certainly didn’t realize what her actions (assuming that she actually left with Rhaegar, a big assumption,) may have believed she wasn’t leaving home for good, and was likely lied to by Rhaegar (he almost certainly didn’t tell her about the three headed dragon before whisking her away and about the political instability going on.)

The whole thing was tragic. The fandom romanticizes it a lot. The question of love (assuming it was there and both Rhaegar and Lyanna felt it for each other) does not equate to it be a loving, good story.

I just love reading Meera’s (secondhand) account of the Tourney at Harrenhal, it must be one of my favorite ~blasts to the past~ in the whole series. This bit in particular is my favorite:

“None offered a name, but he marked their faces well so he could revenge himself upon them later. They shoved him down every time he tried to rise, and kicked him when he curled up on the ground. But then they heard a roar. ‘That’s my father’s man you’re kicking, howled the she-wolf.”

“A wolf on four legs, or two?”

“Two,” said Meera. “The she-wolf laid into the squires with a tourney sword, scattering them all. The crannogman was bruised and bloodied, so she took him back to her lair to clean his cuts and bind them up with linen. There he met her pack brothers: the wild wolf who led them, the quiet wolf beside him, and the pup who was youngest of the four.

“That evening there was to be a feast in Harrenhal, to mark the opening of the tourney, and the she-wolf insisted that the lad attend. He was of high birth, with as much a right to a place on the bench as any other man. She was not easy to refuse, this wolf maid, so he let the young pup find him garb suitable to a king’s feast, and went up to the great castle.

I MEAN. How could Lyanna know that’s her father’s man? She’s 14 years old, probably minding her own business, and she comes across three squires viciously beating another man, and she jumps to his defense, claiming that’s her father’s man. And maybe she did know that he was, maybe she heard how these squires were “cursing him for a frogeater” and she understood that was a crannogman, and maybe she didn’t. Yet there she was, a witness to this injustice, and she scares all three squires away with all the wrath a teenaged girl can muster.

Then everything afterward is just a string of kind and noble acts; she tends to Howland Reed’s wounds herself, she introduces him to her brothers, she insists that he sit with them in the feast. Then she asks him to point out the squires who beat him, Benjen tells him he can get him a horse and a suit of armor, and Ned offers him a place to sleep in his tent.

I am staunchly a “Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree” believer, and I cannot see it any other way. Howland is hesitant, thoughtful, mulls over the subject of jousting for himself. Benjen is young, clearly willing to offer assistance but not prepared to exact revenge on his own. Lyanna, however– Lyanna bore witness to his pain and humiliation, and it’s Lyanna who risks all (once again) to restore her new friend’s honor.

All of this makes Howland’s presence at the Tower of Joy so poignant. Howland Reed could have gone home, but instead he rides to save the girl who would have done– had already done –the same for him.

(i have my own headcanon that Howland swore fealty to Lyanna after the tourney; he laid his frog spear at her feet, knelt for her, and swore his faithfulness to her by earth and water, by bronze and iron, by ice and fire).

(Lyanna laughs, commands him to rise, and says that one day, she hopes to see him again.)

(He does see her again, two years later, in a round tower that smelled of blood and roses.)

Sir Mandon Moore

@nobodysuspectsthebutterfly

In SS:Tyrion II, Tyrion goes to Varys’ chambers to get some information and suss out Varys’ intentions. Varys imparts some useful Information, and strongly implies that Ser Manson Moore was placed in the Kingsguard at the behest of Littlefinger:

“Sadly,” said Varys, “oh, sadly. You might find some kin if you turned over enough stones back in the Vale, but here … Lord Arryn brought him to King’s Landing and Robert gave him his white cloak, but neither loved him much, I fear…“

But he then implies something that I don’t understand:

Nor was he the sort the smallfolk cheer in tourneys, despite his undoubted prowess. Why, even his brothers of the Kingsguard never warmed to him. Ser Barristan was once heard to say that the man had no friend but his sword and no life but duty … but you know, I do not think Selmy meant it altogether as praise. Which is queer when you consider it, is it not? Those are the very qualities we seek in our Kingsguard, it could be said—men who live not for themselves, but for their king. By those lights, our brave Ser Mandon was the perfect white knight. And he died as a knight of the Kingsguard ought, with sword in hand, defending one of the king’s own blood.” The eunuch gave him a slimy smile and watched him sharply.

Tyrion’s internal monologue suggests that he misunderstands Varys’ meaning:

Trying to murder one of the king’s own blood, you mean. Tyrion wondered if Varys knew rather more than he was saying. Nothing he’d just heard was new to him; Bronn had brought back much the same reports. He needed a link to Cersei, some sign that Ser Mandon had been his sister’s catspaw.

I can’t actually find any hint that suggests Ser Mandon was looking for an opportunity to get Tyrion before the Blackwater, though Tyrion notes that Ser Balon Swann and Ser Mandon were his ‘white shadows’ during the battle.

Given this info, who was Mandon Moore actually protecting? Who does Varys mean when he says ‘protecting one of the King’s own blood?’ Stannis? Why did Ser Balon leave them both and retreat to the city, when only moments before they were

“two white shadows were always with him; Balon Swann and Mandon Moore, beautiful in their pale plate. Surrounded by a circle of Velaryon spearmen, they fought back to back; they made battle as graceful as a dance.”

???

anonymous asked:

Could you do Jaylos for the ultimate ship meme?

Send in two (or more) names and I’ll fill all this out about the ship!

General:
Rate the Ship -  
Awful | Ew | No pics pls | I’m not comfortable | Alright | I like it! | Got Pics? | Let’s do it! | Why is this not getting more attention?! | The OTP to rule all other OTPs
How long will they last? - through this lifetime and the next.
How quickly did/will they fall in love? - Jay falls in love pretty quickly, but it takes Carlos some time to notice. He is preciously oblivious at first.
How was their first kiss? - Magical. Jay kisses Carlos with a “don’t you get it?” and then Carlos never wants it to end.
Wedding:
Who proposed? - Jay.
Who is the best man/men? - Ben, Doug, various tourney teammates.
Who is the braid’s maid(s)? - Evie (on Carlos’ side) Mal (on Jay’s side)
Who did the most planning? - Evie. They default all planning to her.
Who stressed the most? - Carlos.
How fancy was the ceremony? -
Back of a pickup truck | 2 | 3 | 4 | Normal Church Wedding | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Kate and William wish they were this big.
Who was specifically not invited to the wedding? - Their parents.
Sex:
Who is on top? - Jay.
Who is the one to instigate things? - Jay.
How healthy is their sex life? -
Barely touch themselves let alone each other | 2 | 3 | 4 | Once a couple weeks, nothing overboard | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | They are humping each other on the couch right now
How kinky are they? -
Straight missionary with the lights off | 2 | 3 | 4 | Might try some butt stuff and toys | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Don’t go into the sex dungeon without a horse’s head
How long do they normally last? - Long…again I find this question weird.
Do they make sure each person gets an equal amount of orgasms? - Yes.
How rough are they in bed? -
Softer than a butterfly on the back of a bunny | 2 | 3 | 4 | The bed’s shaking and squeaking every time | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Their dirty talk is so vulgar it’d make Dwayne Johnson blush. Also, the wall’s so weak it could collapse the next time they do it.
How much cuddling/snuggling do they do? -
No touching after sex | 2 | 3 | 4 | A little spooning at night, or on the couch, but not in public | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | They snuggle and kiss more often than a teen couple on their fifth date to a pillow factory.
Children:
How many children will they have naturally? - none.
How many children will they adopt? - 3.
Who gets stuck with the most diapers? - Jay.
Who is the stricter parent? - Carlos.
Who stops the kid(s) from doing dangerous stunts after school? - Carlos.
Who remembers to pack the lunch(es)? - Jay.
Who is the more loved parent? - loved the same.
Who is more likely to attend the PTA meetings? Carlos.
Who cried the most at graduation? - Jay.
Who is more likely to bail the child(ren) out of trouble with the law? - Carlos.
Cooking:
Who does the most cooking? - They take turns equally.
Who is the most picky in their food choice? - Neither is picky. Anything in Auradon is better than what they had to eat on the Isle.
Who does the grocery shopping? - Jay.
How often do they bake desserts? - Like twice a day, they have an insatiable sweet tooth.
Are they more of a meat lover or a salad eater? - Meat.
Who is more likely to surprise the other(s) with an anniversary dinner? - Carlos.
Who is more likely to suggest going out? - Jay, when it’s his turn to cook.
Who is more likely to burn the house down accidently while cooking? - Jay, he dances too much while doing it.
Chores:
Who cleans the room? - Jay.
Who is really against chores? - Carlos. He had too many growing up to say the least.
Who cleans up after the pets? - Carlos.
Who is more likely to sweep everything under the rug? - Jay.
Who stresses the most when guests are coming over? - Carlos.
Who found a dollar between the couch cushions while cleaning? - Carlos.
Misc:
Who takes the longer showers/baths? - Jay.
Who takes the dog out for a walk? - Carlos. And they have a lot, they rescue dogs.
How often do they decorate the room/house for the holidays? - They didn’t that much on their own, but once the kids are old enough to want to they decorate for every holiday.
What are their goals for the relationship? - They just want to experience all the love and happiness they can with each other.
Who is most likely to sleep till noon? - Jay.
Who plays the most pranks? - Jay plays the most pranks on Mal and Evie, but Carlos pranks Jay a lot. And Jay is always kind of proud when Carlos gets one over on him.

anonymous asked:

Remember Darth Vader's famous "Nooooo"? That was my reaction when I read you endorsing the "Ned and Ashara were in love" idea. Jokes aside, I'd like to hear your reasons for supporting something that goes against my entire idea of Ned's character in so many ways.

Sure, here are my reasons:

1. It’s clear from the text that Ned was strongly attracted to Ashara Dayne at the Tourney at Harrenhal. Ned’s an honorable man, but he’s someone with sexual passion and romantic desire too. And as neither he nor she was betrothed, their liaison is hardly dishonorable. 

2. I also think it feeds well into the central themes of Ned’s character - especially his being torn between honor and family, between duty and desire - and the overarching themes that GRRM is interested in (the human heart at war with itself). If Ned never felt anything for a woman before Catelyn, we don’t have the kind of conflict that we had in Catelyn’s case. In fact, wrt to the whole “promise me, Ned” thing, if Ned had nothing to do with Ashara Dayne, there’s no reason for her to exist as a red herring when you already have Wylla to perform that function. 

2a. If he did, then we have a better case of those themes at work. Ned was in love with one woman, but honor forced him to marry another. Then his desire to protect his family destroyed the woman he loved, and then poisoned his marriage. 

3. It also creates a nice parallel between Ned and Catelyn - both of them got married for the sake of their families, both of them entered into the marriage while being in love with someone else, and neither of them were in love with or particularly attracted to the other partner initially, and then grew to have more. 

4. I think it also works better to explain Ashara Dayne. If all she is to Ned is one of Brandon’s exes, why does he care about her? Why insist that her name not be mentioned, when he goes to some lengths to ensure that Wylla’s name is spread around? Why have there be rumors or have her in the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, when Lyanna is really the main point of that story? Likewise, it makes her eventual fate and Ned’s final meeting that much more meaningful - it’s a lot less tragic for her ex’s brother to kill her brother than for her lover to kill her brother. 

5. I also think it works to explain Brandon Stark’s character. It’s one thing for him to be a hot-headed horn-dog who Ned somewhat resents for being daddy’s favorite and having to live Brandon’s life for him. It’s another thing for him to be an emotionally abusive asshole who encourages his brother’s affections for Ashara Dayne only to turn around and immediately seduce her. Why would Ned build a tomb against tradition for the latter?  

anonymous asked:

I find it odd that Ashara Dayne is openly dishonored, a Lady in waiting to the future Queen, and sister to the deadliest knight in Westeros. Whether she is openly dishonored is unknown, but it's known enough for someone in Barristan's station to know. We have two characters connected to the victim; one is a sibling and the other, a man in love. Why did no one avenge her honor? Why did no one pull a "Dragonknight"? Only thing I can think of, is that they couldn't...b/c of their vows. Thoughts?

Thanks for the question, Anon!

I think some clarification is needed here. Let’s go to what I presume you’re referring to - Ser Barristan Selmy’s internal thoughts in ADWD:

Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara’s smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara’s daughter …

But Ashara’s daughter had been stillborn, and his fair lady had thrown herself from a tower soon after, mad with grief for the child she had lost, and perhaps for the man who had dishonored her at Harrenhal as well. She died never knowing that Ser Barristan had loved her. How could she? He was a knight of the Kingsguard, sworn to celibacy. No good could have come from telling her his feelings. No good came from silence either. If I had unhorsed Rhaegar and crowned Ashara queen of love and beauty, might she have looked to me instead of Stark? (“The Kingbreaker”, A Dance with Dragons)

Barristan makes at least one, probably two accusations here: that Ashara was “dishonored” by a man at the Tourney of Harrenhal and (here’s the probably) that man was one of the Stark brothers (presumably Brandon or Ned, since Benjen was still young). But let’s break a couple things down.

First, can we trust Barristan Selmy’s perspective? His thoughts are colored and maybe blinded by his unrequited love for Ashara Dayne - a love which we have no reason to believe she knew existed, and certainly never indicated she shared. He possessively calls her “his fair lady”, and shows a decent amount of jealousy in the thoughts above - that as the runner-up of the great joust, he lost his chance to demonstrate his love for Ashara. If only he had won, she would have known and chosen him (a conclusion, again, we have no reason to trust).

Second, what does Barristan mean when he says Ashara was “dishonored”?
If Ashara was raped by Brandon or Ned (or another man at Harrenhal, though I tend to think her affair was with a Stark), then certainly Arthur would have cause to defend his sister’s honor; she is a noblewoman, and even if the Dornish view sex permissively, rape - and especially the rape of a noblewoman - is still a crime in Westeros.

But the possibility remains that Ashara and one of the Stark brothers had consensual sex. Indeed, the conclusion is supported by Harwin’s speculation to Arya, based on his own understanding of the situation:

“Aye, he told me. Lady Ashara Dayne. It’s an old tale, that one. I heard it once at Winterfell, when I was no older than you are now.” He took hold of her bridle firmly and turned her horse around. “I doubt there’s any truth to it. But if there is, what of it? When Ned met this Dornish lady, his brother Brandon was still alive, and it was him betrothed to Lady Catelyn, so there’s no stain on your father’s honor. There’s nought like a tourney to make the blood run hot, so maybe some words were whispered in a tent of a night, who can say? Words or kisses, maybe more, but where’s the harm in that? Spring had come, or so they thought, and neither one of them was pledged.” (“Arya VIII”, A Storm of Swords)

Harwin was not an eyewitness of course, but his remarks should still be taken seriously. While Brandon was pledged to marry Catelyn, Ned remained a bachelor.  With neither of them promised to another, they were legally free to conduct an affair with each other. Arthur Dayne may not have seen such an affair as dishonorable; if he trusted his sister to make romantic choices (and again, the permissiveness of Dorne pushes for the Daynes’ lenient understanding of sexuality) and heard nothing about rape or cruelty, he would have had no reason to call Ned or Brandon out for a duel. Barristan, however, may have thought that any man who slept with Ashara had “dishonored” her (a common thought among Westerosi lords - look at the attention paid to the assurance of Margaery Tyrell’s maidenhood before the second and third of her royal marriages).

Barristan’s thoughts on the “dishonoring” of Ashara seem to stem from post-hoc conclusions from events to which he was not privy. If Arthur trusted Ashara’s romantic choices, or if Ned promised to marry Ashara after the tourney, he would have had no cause to defend his sister’s honor (he would also have had to know who “dishonored her” if he did care, which means relying on Ashara to tell). Barristan might have thought her dishonored, but he himself knew Ashara little. He doesn’t know why Ashara committed suicide, merely taking the popular conclusion that she was consumed by grief for a stillborn baby. As far as we know, in fact, he never talked to her. Barristan coming forward as a champion for Ashara presupposes that she was truly and legally dishonored, that he knows for fact who did so, and that Ashara would have supported him doing so - all shaky conclusions.

The Queen Regent (NFriel)

anonymous asked:

Hi! I've seen a post about the Tourney of Harrenhal which stated somewhere that Lyanna did in fact love Rhaegar, but as I've read the books (I'm only on FFC tbf) I haven't got that distinct impression. What's your opinion?

Thanks for the question, Anon!

What can be frustrating about the “romance” of Rhaegar and Lyanna is that we know very very little about either of them, at least in terms of their personal feelings. Hell, we only have one quote from Lyanna in the entirety of the series.  What she says, however, gives an interesting insight into how she viewed the world:

“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I heard he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature.” (“Eddard IX”, A Game of Thrones)

Keep in mind also that Lyanna wept when she heard the beautiful singing and harp-playing of Rhaegar at the Harrenhal tourney. It seems likely that, as much as Lyanna was like her younger niece, Arya - bold, headstrong, defiant - she was also like her elder niece, Sansa - sweet, gentle, and moved by the culture of romance in Westeros. Despite knowing that, as a lady of high rank, she would marry where her father directed, Lyanna wanted a love match - not simply with a man who said he loved her, but a man who would show that he loved her.

So I think Lyanna would definitely have found Rhaegar attractive. He looked the ideal of the romantic prince: handsome, chivalrous, and deeply soulful. While Robert was a lecherous lord even by Westerosi standards, fond of drink and bawdy songs, Rhaegar was quiet and decorous. Indeed, Rhaegar was everything Robert was not. We have already seen one Stark maiden fall for a prince who looked as though he came straight from a storybook (the highly unchivalrous Joffrey):

She could not hate Joffrey tonight. He was too beautiful to hate. He wore a deep blue doublet studded with a double row of golden lion’s heads, and around his brow a slim coronet made of gold and sapphires. His hair was as bright as the metal. Sansa looked at him and trembled, afraid he might ignore her or, worse, turn hateful again and send her weeping from the table. Instead Joffrey smiled and kissed her hand, handsome and gallant as any prince in the songs. (“Sansa II”, A Game of Thrones)

Did she love him? Hard to answer. But I think she was certainly in love with the idea of Rhaegar, as well as what Rhaegar represented - a chance of escape from her dreaded fate as Robert’s wife, a chance to do something even more daring than her jousting as the Knight of the Laughing Tree. He was rescuing her, the way Serwyn rescued Princess Daeryssa or Aemon Queen Naerys, and I think Lyanna would have loved that. 

That said, would she have loved subsequently being imprisoned in a lonely Dornish keep, cut off from her family and home, abandoned by the man who had taken her away? I doubt it.

The Queen Regent (Nfriel)