but leaving out beth and carol

Separate Paths

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this already, and it may be absolutely nothing…but…

I was just thinking about an interesting parallel that we saw in episode 6 x 15 “East”.

Daryl takes off to go and avenge Denise’s death. He is out to kill Dwight. Denise played the role of Beth’s proxy in episode 6 x 14, reminding the audience of Beth and Daryl’s time together all throughout season 4B. In her death, she reminded Daryl of losing Beth…that loss of Beth through his negligence, Denise dying because of his negligence as well.

Rick goes after Carol in this episode after she leaves Alexandria. During his trip with Morgan and their discussion on Carol, Rick articulates that he is doing so because Carol is family. He also justifies Carol’s actions at the prison in regards to putting Karen and David down saying, in a nutshell, she did it to save the group.

In essence, Daryl is making a choice for Beth (in extension through Denise), and Rick is making the choice to go after Carol.

In season 5, when Daryl returns from Atlanta with Noah where he had discovered that Beth was being held and Carol was taken, Daryl is clearly on a mission to get Beth back. Beth had been his mission since he lost her in season 4B, so much so that he left TF behind in episode 5 x 2 to chase after the cross car in the middle of the night…his only solid clue on Beth.

At the church, when Rick and Co. are fortifying the building so they have a safe place to leave Carl and Judith to go on the rescue mission, Rick makes it clear that he is going on this recue mission for Carol. He says that he owes her everything in reference to Carol’s actions at Terminus that allowed Rick and Co. to fight free, saving their lives. He doesn’t once mention going on that mission for Beth.

In season 5, even though Daryl and Rick are part of the same rescue mission, Daryl is on that rescue mission for Beth and Rick for Carol. In season 6, on separate paths, Daryl is driven by a remembrance of Beth to go after Dwight and seek vengeance, while Rick is trying to find and bring Carol back into the fold.

In season 5, it was episode 7 in which Daryl, Rick, and the rest of the rescue party headed to Atlanta for Beth and Carol. In season 6, these separate motivations…separate paths occurred in episode 15. But, if we split the seasons in their natural halves in accordance to the mid-season finales and lay season 5A by 6B, both of these events occur in the seventh episode of each half season.

Just adding this to another long line of Beth/Bethyl parallels in season 6.

The Rare Caryl ‘fight’

I had an ask a week about what Daryl and Carol would fight about. And I thought I might elaborate on that answer a bit by discussing one of their fights. If you can really call it a fight in a technical sense. . 

Daryl has just stopped Carol from shooting, a person he deemed just a kid (same age as Beth, but I digress) and Carol trails after attempting to explain herself. 

“I was aiming for his leg..”  And Daryl is not buying. He’s not answering either. He’s just letting her go. Letting her get it out of her system. 

(gifs by empressmcbride) 

She esstentially confesses in her need to explain herself to him. She spills what it was really about. And WHY she was trying to leave in the first place. Daryl got results by barely saying a word. Just Carol did back in Season 2. 

Daryl frustrated and angry finally responds to this rant on her part. 

Not necessarily angry at her per say, He is just frustrated and reminds her of exactly what she’d doing there in the first place. He essentially, to use a term used by lovely blogger friend of mine (you know who you are are ;) ) ‘calling her out on her bullshit’, Not to be an ass but because he cares about her. Loves her in fact.  It was never about him, it was about her what she doing to herself. 

If it sounds familiar it’s because its the opposing scene to their earlier fight in s2 where after Carol let Daryl angrily rail at her, came back the next morning and essentially called him out for the very same reasons. 

Their fights are not about ego or miscommunication  When Daryl and Carol fight, its usually about concern for the others well-being and their occasionally self-destructive and/or self-punishing behavour. They fight about these things because they love each other. 

One of the greatest things about their fights, is not just the obviously intense feelings involved, its the fact that it usually results in some kind of progress. Steps forward in communication as such. They are not afraid to say anything to each other, to say exactly what the other needs to hear at that moment.  

They don’t sugarcoat it at all. 

That’s what gets results. The honesty they have with each other. Have had since the beginning it seems. Because of that honesty an understanding, fights are rare as a result and are usually about the other not being honest with themselves. 

The agruements they have are because they love each other. Pure and simple

I knew it.

If Beth comes back. Then my theory i have been playing with about mirrors (you guys brought that up) and debts was right.

For Beth to live, Noah had to die.

The bill had to be paid.

There were three who wanted to leave the hospital.


And TF captured three cops in exchange for Beth and Carol.


But Rick didn’t plan on Noah getting caught up in the exchange. So he kills Lamson.

But now things are uneven.

We have in theory three hostages, Beth,Carol and now Noah.

But not enough cops. Only two remain.

Shepherd is exchanged for Carol.
Licari is exchanged for Beth.
Lamson was the exchange for Noah.

Noah was supposed to go to Dawn to even things back out.
Beth intervened ,Beth for Lamson.
Beth had to die for Noah to get to leave. A weird accidental gunshot to the head.
But now Noah is dead. Ripped apart quite brutally in front of our very eyes.

Things are once again uneven.
In order for Noah to die, Beth had to survive her accident.

A fair trade. To have Beth back, Noah has to die. But if Noah had lived, Beth would have really died.

It’s like a mirror like everyone said. His reflection was shown so much. He died behind glass. He died..on the other side of the mirror. We kept seeing blonde walkers and walkers trapped behind glass and in vehicles. Beth was most likely left trapped behind glass (a vehicle window) just like Noah. But she got out somehow. “I’m getting out, just like Noah”. But unlike Noah she survives being trapped behind her glass.

The debt was paid. Now that the ‘butterfly effect’ of choices that left Beth at Grady and supposedly dead have essentially fixed themselves, we only await the real reunion.

A damn butterfly effect. Like the movies, where for one to live. The other has to die. If time is a big part of this season and it is fixing itself by using the mirror theory then when Noah dies in this 'timeline’. It means Beth lives. A life for a life.

The bad 'timeline’ was Beth choosing to stab Dawn, Rick choosing to kill Lamson, Tyreese choosing to not kill people. It ended it Beth dying.

The fixed 'timeline’ Noah dies correcting the choices Beth,Ty and Rick made. Time is in a way. Fixing itself, Beth lives.

It will be dark - check (so much chaos)
There will be no hope - check (all the hopeful ones died, Beth,Bob and Ty)
Things will be weird - check (mirrors)
We are playing with time - check (Butterfly effect style time)
But there is hope at the end of the tunnel - pending

I talk a lot when excited. I apologize if this is a lot of things mentioned before but I have been playing with this idea for a while now.

Here are 10 questions that the shitty writing has left me with this season…

1. Why in the world would Maggie and Glenn just peace out to go on some random mission and leave their family?

2. Why does Maggie ignore the fact that she has a sister?

3. What was the point of the hospital?

4. What was the point of Carol being the hospital?

5. How did Carol become indestructible?

Keep reading

They’re in the midst of a rescue mission. They could be desperately trying to come up with schemes to save Beth, or still trying to track down that car. Things are still tense, and despite that, Daryl still finds time to bring up this.

He knows what would’ve happened if he hadn’t of showed up. And it scares him. He asks the question tentatively, as if it’s one of those things that he doesn’t want to know, but he can’t resist. He needs to know for sure if Carol was going to leave, so he can figure out why. But she doesn’t quite know the answer to that herself.

He’s not angry with her for going off in the dark on her own like that. He’s hurt. But he knows there’s a reason, and he wants to help her figure it out. He’s reaching out to her, even during the circumstances they're in - and that’s huge for Daryl. [.gifs by memoriesinatrunk]
Eine minuten, bitte

Why did Carol have Beth’s knife in the first place? I’m not even getting into why she waited three weeks to give the knife to Daryl. When did Carol come into possession of it?

I can’t imagine Daryl ever letting Beth go for a second until he absolutely had to. Whether it was for a (yet unseen) burial or when the group was swarmed by walkers on the way out of Atlanta and he had to leave her behind in a car, that man would not let her body out of sight, whether she was alive or not.

If we go with the burial scenario, it would mean that when everyone is paying last respects and mourning over the loss, Carol was basically looting her body?!? How in the hell did anyone, let alone Maggie or Daryl, allow that? I know that weapons are precious commodities in the ZA. The thing is, I don’t remember anyone taking Tyreese’s hammer when they buried him. Have you seen anyone hand the hammer to Sasha as a kind of momento? What the hell?

So now let’s go with the “leave her body in a car” scenario. The same concept applies, but now carol would be risking her life, and possibly the lives of the rest of the group, to get Beth’s knife.

But here’s the thing: Beth didn’t have her knife with her during the hallway scene at Grady. I just watched that horrific scene…twice…to make sure. It is absolutely nowhere to be seen. If she’d had it, I would think she’d have used it instead of the tiny scissors.

So, what, when everyone was heading towards the stair to leave, someone came running up and, “Hey, you guys almost forgot this”? Why give it to Carol if Rick was the obvious leader of the group? I get not giving it to Daryl, him being the most shook up by what happened, he’s obviously dangerous with a weapon, and his hands and arms would be full as he carried Beth.

Yet another loose end that has yet to be tied up. No this doesn’t prove anything regarding Beth’s survival, but it’s kind of a big part in the ever growing plot hole that surrounds that idiotic scene.

By the way, if someone has already brought this up, I apologize for bringing it up again. I guess I’ll have Javier make up a fresh drink for you.


I’m sitting here, awaiting yet another blizzard and decieded since i’m stuck here I might as well write something.. any complaints? no? ok ay then..

“You said we can start over.." 

And he really was trying…  emphasis on that word if you will. Because it is harder to get over yourself than some think. As that Matchbox 20 song ’"its me.. and I can’t get myself to go away..”  

But he WAS trying. 

In the course of an arguement  while admitting why she was leaving in the first place,Carol  goes to hand Daryl his bag and  that book fell out. The one he saw on the table in the shelter. At that moment he may have realized some of the magnitude of how dire her situation had been, (although I’m sure he’d had a good idea)  but in that place had brought him back too. 

Daryl had realized, maybe through his manhandling of Beth in ‘Still’ that his behavour wasn’t right, wasn’t normal. It wasn’t  just because of that but that didn’t help. 

A blogger (whose name escapes me right now sorry) in an ask answer mentioned his not only verbal but physical violence, including dragging her by the arm, and holding her in a choke-hold, which when I was reading it occured to me that these were things probably done to him as a child and he may have been, in his drunken state, reacting them with a kid in his care (and Beth was a kid, lets get that out of the way).He had in a sense, become like his own father in that moment and it probably scared him al lot. It’s part of where SOME of his self-awareness came from 

And he did have a LOT of time to think after this. His reunion  with Carol and the need to keep her with him, as well as the different feeling he felt creeping into him regarding her,, ones he didn’t quite understand (i.e possibly romantic), most likely contributed to this as well.  And Beth had instilled some ideas of hope and faith in him and finding Carol again most likely reinforced these in him. Made him want, need to be better.   

To start over. 

So when that book falls out and of course she sees it…

And to me there is this look  on his face.. and on hers that was a wonderful piece of wordless acting on both their parts. 

For her there is sort of a confirmation of what she probably already knew about him. Carol’s own background would made it real easy for her to recognize the signs in him as well. The very kid-like acting out, emotional immarity, and touch-allergic response early on were a dead giveaway. And i’m pretty certain she saw the scars too.  It was never something that had to be explained to her. She just knew. 

The look she gives him him was filled with understanding, empathy  and quite possibly some pride, and maybe a little surprise in the step he just took. Nothing needed to really be said at all there. 

His look is more of a shameful,kid like look of being caught with something. It gets to the heart of the fact that this something about him he really didn’t want anyone to know about.  Something like this is hard to acknowledge for anyone. It’s hard to talk about. And  she, more than anyone, knows this.  And in that moment, as ashamed as he is of this, of all people know about this secret, it’s ok that’s its her.  

And she acknowledges this new growth and self-awareness in him now. 

“It was like you were a kid.. and now your a man." 

It was a huge emotional boost of confidence. In a lot of ways, personal to him and in a relationship sense (meaning she sees him him  like THAT too. natch ;)) . Something I’m sure will have a lasting effect (if Norman’s statement on that is to be believed)  

Tragedy however has a way of kicking us back again, you do have to remember that.  It’s to be expected, because in progress there are always steps backwards, as anyone in recovery will tell you. 

And for someone who who does not believe deep down he’s a good person, and that that bad the bad thing that happen he is somehow to blame for (another product of an abusive upbringing) it is hardly a surprise that he would have trouble coping with things when they go terribly wrong again and again. 

When you can’t bring yet another girl home safely. 

Recovery in the post-apopoclyptic would is even harder.  Because the hits just never stop coming…

(gifs are not mine) 

So some may feel a lack of patience with the moose, depressed Daryl yet again, just remember something.  There is a part of him that’s still trying. That part that took that book, and most likely still has it. 

And there is that levity to look forward to as well right?  Our Carol will bring that from I hear. The one person that really seems to be able to make him smile. 

This is that ying and yang, the give and take that makes this relationship work too. Because I think helping him,helps her, and vice-versa.  This, their innate understanding of each other and the unconditional love are the best things about them for me. 

And I think it’s worth muddling through a little angst don’t you? 

(this ran a little longer than I intended… but then again.. I am snowed in.. and it’s kind of funny that 'have a little faith in me..’ played while I was writing it.. a sign maybe :))