I just want to say, and I haven’t had any coffee yet, so I hope this makes sense/doesn’t sound rude, but I don’t *like*, at all, being someone whose opinion is somehow more important, final, or intimidating than anyone else’s. My blog is literally just *my blog*, which I have been talking on for years about Supernatural and people enjoy talking back to me. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we don’t, sometimes I grudgingly reblog 100 pieces of meta on a subject I kinda hate or am disinterested in (like Amara after season 10 or Jack after season 12 for “disinterested” examples although I’m not gonna spill what I hate :P) because I have weird principles about at least trying to collect meta that makes sense to me or something…
But yeah, my meta is one thing, my opinions, as I said last night but I’ll repeat here in another post, are entirely my own thing and your opinions are entirely your own thing, and they do NOT cancel each other out because I gob on all the time about mine on a blog which has a fair number of followers and a large collection of meta to trick people into thinking I know what I’m talking about all the time. All I’ve done is survive multiple mass-exoduses of fans who got fed up with the show and its ways before it ended, and left, leaving me in a weird position of being kinda prominent and well-established by sheer attrition that much smarter or more talented people up and left to greener pastures. I don’t feel like any part of this process makes me somehow better and scarier than everyone else. In real life I’m an awkwardly laughing nerd who falls asleep in the corner at parties and has been keeping an intense fandom blog for like 4 years, to whatever detriment to the personality that causes in polite company. :P
Anyway I weighed in on a debate last night as I usually do when I talk about something here by explaining a huge chunk of meta for where I saw this thing coming from textually (see also: nerd), and threw in my opinion on the end, and now I have a bunch of replies where people sound like they’re dying of horror to even dare disagree with me, despite me trying to cram in multiple disclaimers that I’d reached the opinion part of the discussion, that I knew people had different opinions, and this was literally the part of my discussion that was my own bias for why I want to see things go a certain way.
The textual analysis was not meant to scare anyone into thinking I can’t be argued with, I just wanted to sound the whole thing out and explain in detail why this was even a thing back to the roots as far as I knew about them. As I said to the first reply that sounded like I was going to literally murder them for disagreeing, everything that anyone’s disagreeing with here is the second part, my opinion on it all, which I have tried SO HARD to convey is the bit which is mine, my own, my precious. And you can’t take it from me, you CAN agree with me, and I am not going to go around taking other people’s preciouses when I’m already sitting in my dank cave with THIS one. All I can do to disagree is clarify to the best of my ability what I meant and where I think our opinions differ. I mean the replies on that post are now deeply upsetting to me because it sounds like people think that the louder, chattier people in this fandom have *any* special power to be agreed with other than “talked louder; inevitably someone either pays you money to shut up, or people start listening”.
So okay apparently people listen to me and I have an intimidating opinion. Here’s my intimidating opinion of the day: my opinion, nor anyone else’s, is worth ANY more than yours, whoever you are reading this.
Meta is just a discussion of the show, and the meta I’ve generally written and reblogged has been textual analysis where opinion is mostly in the spec at the end, but most of the post is trying to say “what does this mean if the show put this in”… It also causes problems where people think the meta is authoritative, trying to dictate the show, whatever, by being phrased as saying what we think the show is saying usually without disclaimers about personal investment or degree of credulity we’re lending it all… but there’s a difference between trying to work out the message and writing down what we think it is (even when we don’t like it, even when the message is something like telling us we take it too seriously :P) and having an opinion on it.
So I can think the show has put in some pretty heavy subtext that Dean and Crowley hooked up. I didn’t particularly *like* it at the time, and that was my opinion, but I still reblogged bunches and bunches of meta about it (and eventually warmed up to the concept once we were out of several different danger zones that really put me off what the show’s message seemed to be at first), because it was something I saw in the show and it was so obvious it was hard at times to talk about anything else. I know there are people out there who are still clinging on that it didn’t happen at all and that is also an analysis and an opinion, and probably an easier one for them to deal with on the subject. There’s people who grudgingly give the show that they had that subtext, let it have happened, but refuse to engage in it because they think it sucks and they don’t like Crowley. That’s also their right. There’s people who love it to bits and immediately shipped it and it’s really important to them. That’s ALSO their right and still not exactly where I am with it although since I kinda got into the middle of all that by reblogging so much meta about it we seem to be on the best terms of all these different options :P There’s myriad other opinions on it all, including probably that meta writers are being ridiculous for even daring to look for any kind of subtext in the first place. (A refusal to engage with the text is, ironically, also engaging with the text at least for discussion purposes, hence like, MOST fandom drama between people who just want to spread hate and think they have a definitive reading of it all >.>)
I read a lot of posts here from more than just the specific bits of opinion I agree with, and I see a lot of opinions flowing by in all different camps of the show that I think are fine that people have. And as people have got disillusioned with the show I used to agree with on every point I learned their opinion was still just their opinion and that it still didn’t affect what I wanted to feel, and so I carried on mouthing off my opinion as people I once agreed with left or fell out of love with the things we used to have an equal love in. And all these opinions are based in things people read in the show and they can offer up their evidence for it, and if it’s well argued, I’ll read the whole thing, and even agree with every point they argue, and still walk out of there with my original opinion intact if I can be absolutely sure that I have my own footing for why I think what I think. And that’s that. I read a 70k long meta about why Sam is a horrible person and I still love him and will defend him for these things, but the meta I read made some awfully good and intelligent points about the writing of the show that at the very least I will from now on take deep into my understanding of the writing in the bit it was talking about, while still not feeling like Sam as an emotional construct is something I now have to hate or that I can’t find his side and feel empathetic towards it as well. (Also I am the sort of person who reads a 70k meta on why a fave is awful if it’s well-argued, without raising my own blood pressure or changing my mind on the important parts, so I suppose there’s that to know about me… :P)
Anyway. As usual a lot of words to say something simple. I’m not an authority. I’m glad people enjoy my meta and look to me to talk about the show in my own rambly way, but when I have an opinion on something you’re allowed to disagree. I knew that debate was sensitive but I wanted to explain my own side properly because I thought that would be *more* sensitive than just saying my opinion, as if it were fact, and people are treating it like they’re having to fight the system now and I am way too anarchic for that. Please don’t turn me into a pillar of authority, I’m a dweeb in sheepie pyjamas. I should not be dictating people’s opinion on a TV show, just offering textual arguments and my own opinions for people who are too lazy to type it out and agree with it themselves, and if they don’t agree with me, to be able to make their own posts about their own opinions.
If the reason you want to disagree with me is the opinion part of my posts, then that’s okay, you can do that. You can make your own posts, you can reply to my post although I’m not going to have a clue what to say. Your opinions are your opinions, and YOU CAN’T ARGUE WITH OPINIONS. I am NOT going to go reply to people who have a deep investment in an opinion who are disagreeing with MY OPINION and say “You can’t have that opinion, your subjective emotional stake in a thing is WRONG”.
I think we have a slight misunderstanding going around between meta and opinion. Meta is analysis. Opinion is how we feel about it. Me laying out a bunch of analysis is not disagreeing or throwing a pile of quotes around to try and prove I have some higher ground on my opinion (in fact in this case I thought there was a broad agreement on the textual reading and a vast gulf on the opinion, of which I was asked mine >.>), it’s an attempt to explain and lay down the facts I think are at work to inform opinions, and the narratives I see that have already been put into the show on something. My opinion is what I think should happen with that with an emotional stake of what makes me feel good or bad about it. Nothing is going to change what I feel good or bad about here except for the show doing more with it.
I felt bad about Dean and Crowley after 10x04 because Dean said he was “embarrassed”. I felt good about Dean and Crowley after 10x17 where they were philosophical and friendly. I felt horrified about Dean and Crowley after 11x02 when Crowley made the “choirboy” comment that seemed to go waaay over the bounds of implying the dub con I was worried about all along. I felt conflicted about Dean and Crowley after 11x06 where Dean turned out to have kept Crowley’s messages on his phone. I started to feel better after 11x22 and 23 where they had the dynamic from 10x17 which put me at ease. In 12x15 I was actively nostalgic along with Crowley because they’d moved to such a good place and the narrative showing Crowley to the door wanted to make a final comment on how this relationship had been for them. My OPINION and what made me feel good or bad kept changing. My READING that the show’s subtext was telling us pretty much directly that they’d hooked up, had not changed since 10x01 and the comment about how they’d “Had a room” that I think was even in a promo before the episode, never mind once we got the actual episode and we learned about the triplets :P This is the difference between meta and opinion to me. In the early part of season 11 I was actively upset about this dynamic because I thought it had gone too far. The writing made me feel better and now it’s all over I’m genuinely fond of it as the way they managed to leave off, which is an impressive feat for a ship that once made me laugh in hysterical confusion, and at another point actively squicked me out.
Anyway current canon has left me at a point on the other thing where I see a pattern that has emotionally meant pretty much the same thing to me the entire time it’s been unfolding on my screen and I’ve been watching along with fandom and reading all the meta explaining the stuff I see on screen. I feel like there’s not a great deal of wiggle room on interpretation of some instances for the basic message the show is trying to convey about where it’s going or why it’s doing certain things, and it’s usually just the weight you give them that your opinion can affect the reading. A lot of these things are fairly black and white meaning to me because the context was so heavily laden with that overflowing Carver era symbolism that I learned to read from meta writers past (and a few thankfully still present). I’m going to assume and act like it’s a prevailing opinion because when I was fandom new it was a loud and often-repeated idea and everyone I saw talking about it seemed to be excited and excitement is infectious. The excitement was the feeling, the opinion, the bias rolling off of all this. The meta underneath was what was making them excited and debating it as a concept a thousand miles an hour. My opinion that it’s a good thing probably comes from this season 9 era happy acceptance of the idea, and nothing’s really happened to change my opinion or make me feel differently. So the meta I call on is mostly of the era I remember it being discussed the most in the text and therefore by the fandom, and the feeling I have about it hasn’t much changed. If that makes me sound like I know what I’m talking about, it’s because this is an extremely well-worn groove to me, always leading to the same conclusions and generally being soaked in positive feeling.
I’m sorry there are people who are upset by the concept but I’m not sorry for my opinion and feelings and I feel like this whole thing is a really weird mess where people are using my post to debate my opinion with their own opinions, and feelings will always be at cross purposes and I can’t help that. I can’t meta away feelings. I can’t meta up new feelings. The only thing that will change my opinion is the show producing new context which makes me feel weird and uncertain about my previous opinion, which I am liable and happy to change. And we’re at a really weird and upsetting for everyone cross purposes where opinions are being given the debatable value of meta and treated as if they’re the main statement, the main idea, the main reason anything is happening. When a subject’s debatable issue is entire in what everyone FEELS about it, everyone is always going to be upset, and someone who writes long wordy posts and then attaches an opinion at the end is going to seem, apparently, like they’re some sort of undebatable pillar when in fact their opinion is meaningless to yours and they just like talking a lot about the show and explaining where their opinion even comes from in the first place.
The debatable part to me would be anywhere I mention something that happened in an episode and then explain my reading of what it meant in fairly straightforward terms of parallels and symbolism or contrasts and seeming statements on character feeling and intent. My opinion attached to the end is not something I am going to let go of, NOR do I expect YOU to let go of YOUR opinion to engage me on the subject.
And that goes for basically everything.
So I will not be replying to that post and its replies because they’re all opinion based on what makes people feel good or bad, and I see it as completely futile because *ALL I CAN DO* in this case is hurt people by doubling down on my opinion of what makes me feel good and bad about that speculation.
So all I can say is that I am NOT an authority and opinions are NOT META (which is still just a reading that can be argued in different ways, but for the sake of opinion posts, the basis on where that opinion comes from and the ~authority~ you’re using to feel that way, even if the authority you get that opinion from is your own interpretation), not mine, not yours. They’re a discussion about how we feel about the show and carry little weight in analysis, so we need to stop arguing with each other on entirely theoretical speculative subjects where people have high emotions about it, without recognising what we are doing and how people will get hurt when posing the idea that opinions can ever be objective or a way to force people to agree with you. I’m sorry only that my disclaimers last night were not enough to make it clear I was worried about this exact thing happening, and that this lead to people expressing that I’m somehow a master opinion you can’t argue with.
By all means collect up people who share an opinion and make friends and feel better about it. It’s OKAY to disagree with people who you see as otherwise apparently making a lot of sense and being worth listening to. No one agrees on everything all the time and it’s weird if you do. There’s a couple of meta writers I agree with on just about everything except one particular topic where I was quite amused to see those two disagreeing on every point and then though I didn’t reply I had my own, different and wildly conflicting, opinion, from the BOTH of them, on every single example they gave. So we’ll just… not discuss those sort of things with each other I suppose :D And we get on and on every other point, it seems, continue to reblog from each other and agree loudly. And I hope people disagreeing with my opinion and each other’s opinion on these things don’t just cut off ties from each other despite agreeing on many other topics, because of this one thing.
TL;DR - I am not interested in starting an opinion or personality cult where I’m always right. I’m really really not interested in smacking down people’s opinions who disagree with me. I’m completely chill with other people’s opinions existing out there, and I really really hate that opinions upset people because they’re taken as fact, and I think rather than saying opinions are inarguable, I kinda think we should just be allowed to HAVE them and go about our business. And I’m hereby releasing my opinions on everything people disagree with into the void to say they are utterly meaningless if you disagree with them, and hold absolutely no weight on what you’re allowed to think or publicly express.
(PS: pls talk more all the time about the ideas you have and don’t feel like there’s some sort of meta authority. I am so socially anxious I used to sweat and shake and triple-read my replies to people I thought were meta authorities until I realised I was always going to admire them, but we were all basically doing the same thing, shooting the breeze about the show, and no one was more important or authoritative than the others. If there’s some sort of wall between communicating because there’s a perceived meta ivory tower, please know that everyone you think is at the top of the tower is someone who still sees themselves as standing in the ground floor lobby of said tower, confused about how they were even let in the door, and seeing someone else above them on the higher floors.)
"I think I'll have my balls cut off" said no sane man ever.
People always ask me, “Why do you bother trying to deal rationally with hate mail? There’s no point.” Well, this is why. Clearly I’ve been able to make some headway with this one. They’re finally starting to understand: trans women aren’t men. It’s true, most men would never seek an orchiectomy (except in the case of cancer, perhaps, or maybe for cultural reasons such as certain monks, but far be it from me to rob someone of the oversimplified absolutes they use to justify their bigotry). Anyways, this is a good day and just goes to show that sometimes you can teach a crotchety, stubborn, crude, socially unadaptable, nasty old dog a new trick every now and then. 😊
Can u talk about the comorbity between avpd and hpd? It may be partly bc of my bpd that I have a bit of hpd along with my other pds. But my problem is I want constant attention I need it but I avoid it or I do really ridiculous shit to draw attention to me and regret it (like I'll start blabbing my mouth making everyone listen when I had nothing to say except embarrassing shit or I'm constantly like posing and looking good but at the same time like, I avoid it all and don't approach anyone
First of all, I feel like everybody would benefit from viewing this chart. The book it’s from is not available online and I don’t own it, unfortunately, but I believe that the numbers are percentages. The lefthand column is primary diagnosis, the top is comorbid conditions. (Comorbid means more than one disorder is present in one person, in case anybody didn’t know.)
So, assuming I’m interpreting it correctly, people whose main PD is HPD also have AvPD 21% of the time, and people whose main PD is AvPD also have HPD 16% of the time.
I love this chart because it gives you a quick impression of how common PD comorbidities are! Very validating for those of us who feel like we fit “too many” PDs!
People who require extra attention, like people with BPD, HPD, NPD and DPD, can all absolutely have AvPD as well. I think you described it quite well, anon.
I think that the negative reaction that people with BPD, HPD, NPD and DPD receive to our “dramatic” behaviour and “attention-seeking” can encourage us to become more avoidant. That’s my experience of this comorbidity - I feel my Cluster B traits (I don’t have DPD) came before my AvPD.
I have often felt so helpless to prevent myself from expressing symptoms outwardly (violence, manipulation, etc) that I could only walk away from the situation, and try to avoid similar ones in future. However, this strategy never taught me how to process and accept those extreme emotions. It only hid my symptoms from others.
“Contradictory” symptoms like wanting attention and fearing attention might both happen at once; or certain situations might trigger one more than the other; or you might experience one sometimes and the other at other times.
For example, sometimes I’m so convinced I’ll ruin our relationship that I can’t even send a text to my best friend. Sometimes I have a panic attack if I don’t get attention very quickly. It’s okay when I only have one of these, but when I have both, I get very distressed, because the solution to one makes the other worse.
People with BPD, HPD, NPD and DPD also tend to rely on others to validate or provide their identity, to various extents. For many of us, isolation causes our identity to crumble. AvPD encourages us to self-isolate, regularly setting off those identity issues and making it very difficult to seek help or support with them. (AvPD has its own identity issues as well.)
I hope it’s okay that I spoke more generally about PD comorbidity than your question was asking. I thought it would be more helpful. If you needed more about HPD specifically, you could try looking or posting in the #honestlyhistrionic tag!
Riarkle Stargazing AU: New York may have been pretty, but the closest thing to small lights in the sky was the tall skyscraper’s light being turned on. So, Riley, who was so use to being the light, wanted to see it. And Farkle, would do anything to get away from the world with his love, so he took them away.
Click on the pictures for mini-sentences
Request: Riarkle AU where Riley and Farkle go out of the city every so often to stargaze and talk about astronomy? :)
Low key we should mimic the ancient Egyptians and make our own Library of Alexandria, except this time we use our technology to both secure it, back it up, and make it accessible in case the world ever goes through an apocalypse-like event; that way, even if humans come close to extinction, we will still have all of the knowledge we knew before the collapse of society.