Summary: Based on a request by my dear, Chani @myluvislikewow, T’Challa decides to take a big step with you after five years of dating.
Word Count: 2,267
A/N: I hope you enjoy Kitty King, as @khaleesinarylfiel likes to call him lol. Positive feedback is loved!
From the moment he strode into the
room, you could see the tension in T’Challa’s broad shoulders, the tightness of
his smile and how it never quite reached his dark brown eyes. He was still
polite to the elderly minister, who had traveled across the world to try to negotiate
with the new king. Yet you could see the slight tremble in his hands, the bead
of sweat running down the side of his face, and his curt words.
Do you think there are any parallels between Catelyn and Cersei?
I think Catelyn and Cersei are two edges of the same sword. They both have very similar story lines. I think the main differences come down to a few details that helped shape them into two different people. Personally I love that because it’s a great character study of how one or two events can completely change a person. It’s a way of playing the AU game without having to go AU.
Both women were the oldest of the siblings and both lost their mothers at a young age. We know that Cersei was very close to her mother, and I would assume that Catelyn was at least somewhat close to her mother. Both were promised to a man that ended up dying in war. Both were mothers to kings, and both watched their first born sons die right in front of them, and they both had daughters sent off to marry a rival family’s son. Both also had a very rocky start to their marriages – Catelyn had to move to a brand new environment and Ned was only with her a couple weeks before he left and returned with a bastard; Robert called out Lyanna’s name while having sex with Cersei on their wedding night.
The main difference comes down to family. House Tully’s words are: Family Duty Honor. And she does tend to follow these rules. When Ned finds out that Robert is going to ask him to be his hand, Catelyn automatically tries to convince him of the choice that will keep everyone alive (it differs from book to show). She goes to King’s Landing to warn Ned, she stays with Robb to try and help him, she let’s the very man that she wants to kill go because her daughter’s lives depend on it. She doesn’t always make the best decisions, but her true intentions lie within trying to get her family back together. They make it clear how she feels about violence in the beginning, but as soon as her son’s life is threatened she wants to do anything to prove a point and show people that they will pay if the Starks are messed with. She goes against her own moral codes when it means saving her children.
I think it also helps that she did have a husband who loved her. We see how he treats her in contrast to how Robert treats Cersei. Sansa thought it was weird when Cersei mentioned to her that Robert wasn’t there when she gave birth to her children, meaning that Ned was there most times. Ned discussed things with Catelyn in a society where a woman’s opinion did not mean very much. His dying thoughts are about Catelyn and where she’s at. There’s a lot of scenes with Ned and Cat together, where as we don’t see too much of Robert and Cersei together when they don’t have to be.
Cersei on the other hand, grew up in a family where her brother got everything she wanted. Tywin makes a remark to Arya that she reminds him of his daughter, thinking all the typical things that girls do is dumb. I don’t by any means think Cersei was neglected, but I do think she grew up watching Jaime get everything she wanted. He got special attention as the oldest son and she didn’t think it fair. As twins they grew up together and did most things together up to a certain age. I think part of that jealousy comes from the fact that she felt as though he were being pulled away from her. Her mom died, she can’t hang out with her brother as much anymore. She essentially wanted to be her brother and be apart of everything he did because he was all she had and she was about to own every part of him that she could.
And while this is going on, her father constantly blamed Tyrion for Joanna’s death. She heard that all the time and it validated her anger towards Tyrion. There wasn’t an emphasis on family. Tywin did care about most of his family, but more than that he cared about the Lannister image. And let’s not forget, Cersei went and talked to a witch that told her her future. She was told at a young age that she would lose everything eventually. She would lose her children, she would lose her position, that someone else is going to come in and take all of that away from her.
All of this is what motives her. She wants that power. She wants to be able to do all the things her arrogant father told her she couldn’t. She wants to be able to do everything Jaime can. And most of all, she wants to defy everything that the witch told her. She wants to prove that she can overcome fate through sheer power and cling onto everything that’s important to her.
I also think it’s worth noting that Catelyn technically lives Cersei’s prophecy. She loses her home, she is in all technicalities, a queen for a small time being. I believe the correct term is queen mother, but a queen nonetheless before her son marries. She loses her husband. She loses her position. She believes that she has lost all of her children (Arya, Bran, and Rickon are claimed dead and at the red wedding she probably figured that Sansa was getting killed that very night, and we all know Robb). And it was all taken away by – The Lannisters, mainly Cersei and Joffrey.
Overall too they share some of the same qualities. They both have displayed a vengeful streak, they’re both very stubborn. They both have tempers, they’re both protective, they can both hold grudges very well. They’re both clingy. Catelyn’s a little more compassionate, a little more impulsive and naive in a sense, she displays more of the caregiver trope and is portrayed as more a tragic character. Cersei’s a little more clever and has a better handle on politics, she’s more about getting what she needs and a little more selfish, and she’s more of a villain.
Anne Frank and Martin Luther King, Jr. were both born in the same year (1929).
Martin Luther King, Jr., was born January 18, 1929 in Atlanta, Georgia. When he turned 18, he entered ministry at the Baptist church. King was a prominent leader in the African American Civil Rights movement and assassinated in 1968 at the age of 39.
Anne Frank was born June 12, 1929, in Frankfurt, Germany, and lived only 15 years, the last few spent hiding from the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands. Anne Frank became internationally famous when her diary was published by her father in 1947.
When Odin is talking to Thor and Loki and they are small boys, and he says they were both born to be kings, he also says that Laufey fell. That usually means died.
My theory is that Odin thought Laufey was dead, and that Loki was his only heir. So he planned to, eventually, make sure Loki became king of Jotunheim. If Laufey had been dead, and his son had arrived with the Casket, initially with an army of Asgardians and Thor, I think it would have worked. Asgard would have been more secure and Odin more formidable than ever, if his adopted son were recognized King of Jotunheim.
But while Loki was still young, I think Odin found out that Laufey was not dead. Loki wasn’t the unrecognized King of Jotunheim; he was the Jotun king’s natural son. And from that day on, Odin stopped saying that Loki was born to be a king and he stopped planning to tell him that he was born a Jotun.
“Loki was brought up with the expectation of entitlement — he was born to rule, both Thor and Loki were born to be kings. And yet, there is no kingdom for Loki, so he has to find one. So he’s come down to earth to subjugate humanity and rule the human race as their king. I guess we’ve skirted over the facts of where Loki disappeared to, but we’ve imagined that he’s had a pretty horrible time and this is his kind of last chance at giving himself an identity or a home, somewhere to belong to.” – Tom Hiddleston
If you don't mind I'd like to ask for more of your headcanons: what is your view on Loki's childhood in MCU? Was he really neglected or is he oversensitive of his status?
edit: also to add that never think I mind talking about Loki, I stg it’s one of my favorite things to do. as should be evident.
Oh man. I feel like I’ve talked about this before, and the minefield I feel there is in the dichotomy fandom often makes between “really neglected” and “just oversensitive”, because I feel like the answer is “it’s complicated”.
I don’t think that there was malicious intent, first of all. I think that Odin and Frigga genuinely loved Loki and wanted to do right by him. But intent, of course, isn’t everything, and parents are human and screw up. Different people react differently to things, and sometimes that can be perceived as someone “making things up” or “oversensitivity” when it might just as easily be a case of differing needs - which I think was a big part of the problem. I think that part of the problem was that Loki and Thor were treated equally - but what Loki needed was different from what Thor did.
And I do think there was a certain amount of value judgment. Thor’s personality fit better both in Asgard and with the general milieu of the environment, which meant that his talents were encouraged, his value was more easily recognized. Thor was/is also louder - more willing to demand, more able to communicate his needs directly, more outward facing in general. Loki’s particular personality, on the other hand, was prone to being misread. Frigga says in Thor that she and Odin “didn’t want him to feel different”, but there’s a trap there: Loki already felt different, and got the message that he shouldn’t be that. As a result of trying to make Loki feel the same, Loki felt as though he was somehow wrong for being not the same.
I think that there was a lot of repeated, gradual patterns of Loki’s needs not being recognized or met, and therefore Loki declining to express those needs, and growing to resent those around him for feeling as though he was required to do so.
Then there’s the fact that I think as a result of being royalty there was a lot of pressure to present a certain way, which meant that Loki’s insecurities and upsets had to be masked and hidden. Loki learned, I think, that his emotions were a secret to be hidden away, because negative emotion that wasn’t anger was unseemly and inappropriate in public - and often, I think, uncomfortable in private. I don’t think Frigga does well with family upsets, and I don’t think Odin does well with non-anger emotion in general. The way that Loki substitutes anger for all of his emotions suggests, to me, that that was one of the only acceptable ways of admitting to emotion.
But Loki also struggles to communicate any of this - both because that communication was, directly or indirectly, discouraged, but also because his particular communication style is oblique and sort of sideways, making it hard to interpret. Loki is perceptive, good at figuring out what people are thinking. He kind of expects other people to be the same, so when people can’t figure out what he’s trying to communicate subtly he attributes it to them not caring.
And then there’s Thor. Siblings hurt each other - that’s just a fact. But the thing is that I think Loki is overall more sensitive and has a harder time letting go of things than Thor does. So something would go wrong, Thor would hurt Loki, and either he wouldn’t recognize it happening or would think that it was resolved when it wasn’t. And in the former case - I think when confronted, naturally, Thor would get defensive - I didn’t mean it, things didn’t happen that way, this wouldn’t bother me so why would it bother you, and so on. There’s a bit in “Road to Nowhere” that really enscapulates a lot of this for me:
Loki laughed, sharp and harsh. “So there was no difference between your ‘teasing’ of me and that of the rest?”
“If it bothered you, you might have said something!” Thor said, voice rising.
“And be branded a coward? More of one than I already was, that is. Or a whiner? Or whatever else pleased your friends that day, when your taunts gave them permission?” The sound Loki made did not sound much like a laugh at all. “I think not, Thor. Better to give back the same that I received than to go mewling to you about my wounded feelings.”
Thor jerked back. “It was not like that,” he said, angrily. Loki turned and sneered at him.
“Oh? Was it not? I lived it, Thor, I think I remember-”
“I lived it as well,” Thor interrupted, “and I remember none of this cruelty that you describe-”
“You would not,” Loki said, his voice suddenly thick with disgust. He turned his back again, the edge fading out of his voice, leaving it dull. “Such was the way of things, Thor. What was everything to me meant nothing to you. I ought to have realized that an age ago, but perhaps I am as much a fool as you.”
Basically - it’s a convergence of a lot of unfortunate things. Miscommunication, Loki’s already strained mental health (unrecognized, I think, for what it was), a tendency to avoid conflict for the sake of appearances (leading to things being suppressed and therefore unresolved), and the fact that Loki was told, well-meaning but still harmful, that his difference was a problem (with him), because being different is bad. There’s the dissonance in recognition simply because Thor’s talents are more obvious and more in line with Aesir values, and the dissonance with the fact that even as Odin says they are both born to be kings, he’s clearly grooming Thor as the heir.
It’s not a case of either/or - it’s both. There’s a thousand ways things could have gone differently on either side - Loki could react differently, better, express himself more clearly. Odin or Frigga could recognize the problems with the way they were parenting. It’s messy and complicated, like all families, and it accumulates in such a way that it adds up to tragedy.
This is one of the saddest things to me about Loki: the way that accumulation leads him, step by step, to conclude that the only way he can possibly reach any kind of satisfaction is making himself a villain - but even that ends up being hollow.
HAPPY 49TH BIRTHDAY TO KING FELIPE VI OF SPAIN! Felipe Juan Pablo Alfonso de Todos los Santos de Borbón y Grecia was born on January 30, 1968 in Madrid, Spain to King Juan Carlos I and to Queen Sofía of Spain. He was the third child of the young couple who already had two daughters, Elena and Cristina. Felipe was christened on February 08, 1968 at Palacio de La Zarzuela and his godparents were the Count of Barcelona and Queen Victoria Eugenia. On January 30, 1986 he swore allegiance to the Constitution and to the King in the Congress of Deputies, accepting his role as the successor to the Throne. He speaks fluently spanish, english, french and catalán. The King received his education at Colegio Santa María de los Rosales in Madrid and at Lakefield College School in Toronto, then he received his military education in the Army, in the Navy and in the Air Force. He studied Law at Universidad Autónoma de Madrid and International Affairs at Georgetown University. King Felipe and Queen Letizia got engaged on November 1, 2003 and they got married on May 22, 2004 at Catedral de la Almudena in Madrid, Spain. On October 31, 2005 Princess Leonor was born and on April 29, 2007 Infanta Sofía was born both in Madrid, Spain. Felipe de Borbón became the King of Spain on June 19, 2014 after King Juan Carlos I abdicated on his favour.
What they mean:
If Mogar doesn't show up in Xray and Vav sometime in the future I will be upset cause they had The Mad King and the CoPirate, both which were born from Achievement Hunter Let's plays, they'd miss one hell of an opportunity by not putting him in. Also have you heard of this AU called Mogar in Xray and Vav? Fuck that AU, cause of it I want Mavin to actually happen on this damn show and the chances of that are pretty slim. I mean, Lindsay loves it. And both Michael and Gavin get a kick out of it...come on, they have shirts that say TEAM MAVIN on them. Ray basically invented "TEAM MAVIN". WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR?!
Whenever I see that scene between Loki and Odin in the vaults from Thor I'm always reminded about how in it Loki says "because no matter how much you claimed to love me, you could never had a frost giant sitting on the throne of Asgard" and I think this moment when he's not properly thinking through what he's saying, he's just *talking* shows how much Loki equated love with being given the throne and to me it really speaks on how much actions mean more to him than words in a lot of ways.
Yeah, absolutely. I do not think…I think part of the problem for Loki is that because it’s so easy for him to lie he assumes it’s the same for others, he struggles to believe that they are telling the truth, especially when it does not mesh with his own self-image/beliefs. (If he would lie about it or doesn’t agree, it’s probably a lie.) Actions are…harder to dismiss. It’s why Loki almost never apologizes with words, but rather will do things. (Or, one of the reasons. Another one is just that he hates apologizing because admitting to fault is the worst.)
And when Odin says “both of you were born to be kings”, when the throne and kingship is the highest honor that can possibly be given, when Loki perceives it as something Odin gives to Thor because he loves Thor better - well, is that not the ultimate expression of love and trust? (He thinks.) And of course Odin could not love/trust him that much, by virtue of Loki being what he is. (Partly because Loki cannot imagine it.)
And this is, so often, where Loki gets stuck. Because he cannot trust words, and to a certain extent words are all he has. He can’t see into his family’s hearts to see how they really feel about him. Loki also has a really hard time separating out “condemnation of actions” from “condemnation of self” so when Thor condemns his actions (every time Thor condemns his actions) Loki hears it as a condemnation of himself. And thus reaffirms, again and again, that he cannot be anything but the monster and the villain. His actions make him monstrous and thus he is a monster - it’s a circle Loki can’t break out of.
It’s also where Odin has a hard time parenting Loki, because Odin is not terribly good at communicating with either actions or words, and sometimes he has to act in certain ways as King while speaking in a different way as father, and Loki will always perceive the former as more genuine than the latter.
As necessary as this moment was, because Thor needed a wake-up call to really take stock of himself, it still kills me how painful it is to watch, how much I ache while going through it, how much it actually hurts to see Thor’s face here, in exactly the way it’s supposed to. Chris Hemsworth does not get nearly enough credit for how good his acting is in this scene, how you see both the anger and the hurt on Thor’s face, the regret for what he screams at his father, the devastation as Odin takes his hammer from him and pulls the armor from his body, and strips his power from him.
It’s so painful, but so well acted. Even in just stationary caps, you can see the whole confused mix of emotions on Thor’s face and, ugh, Chris is SO GOOD IN THIS ROLE, he makes these movies, he made this character understandable to me, not in a flashy sort of way, but just so incredibly, solidly good that I fell in love with the character of Thor.
But, okay, the thing I really want to talk about is the way Odin treats his sons—how he clearly loves them, but his anger is pretty terrifying and this huge thing. Much of that is because he’s a king, because there is a responsibility on his shoulders that isn’t just personal, but for thousands (and possibly billions or even trillions of lives, as they are the protectors of the Nine Realms) and that needs to be taken with the utmost seriousness. He cannot afford to be a soft father, this cannot be something with room for error, because that would cost people their lives.
This is something I imagine he tried to impress upon his sons, but when they fumble with it, his fury at how hard he’s tried to tell them that this is serious, that this must be done right, is huge because I think it does come (at least in part) from a place of caring. It’s a hard sort of caring, because that’s what the throne has done to Odin or because that’s how he always was, but he’s willing to cast his son out (and I think you’d have a hard time arguing that Odin doesn’t love Thor) because it’s what’s necessary and he’s FURIOUS about it.
It makes sense to me then that there’s a lot of the same going on with Loki in TDW, that Odin is angry because Loki was supposed to have learned to care for the people he was responsible for. He’s angry because Loki is shunning all the qualities that would make him a good leader, because Odin did consider him legitimately being groomed for rule. I don’t think the “you were both born to be kings” line was a lie, I don’t think it was about putting Loki on Jotunheim’s throne, I think he always planned that they were going to rule Asgard together (well, after a certain point, ORIGINALLY, when Loki was a baby, it was about putting him as ruler of Jotunheim, but then, no, that little squish was theirs, he was going to be an integral part of Thor’s support to rule Asgard, the deleted scenes explicitly say so).
It’s when Thor starts screaming back at him that Odin really seems to come to the storm of emotions, that when Thor yells at him, that’s when he decries Thor as unworthy and casts him out, which further supports how I see Odin—as someone who comes from a place of deep caring, so that when he’s hurt by the words his sons hurl at him, he lashes back in anger. (All of this is not excusing Odin for his faults, by the way! Merely looking at his character, who does have flaws that I find interesting sometimes!)
The thing is, though, that Thor doesn’t goad the situation on in the same way. Once it’s clear what’s happening, he doesn’t say anything, the hurt on his face is an open book, and I do think that Odin reacts to that, even if he himself isn’t aware he’s doing it. Both of Odin’s sons get yelled at when they’ve fucked up and just about started wars, both of them get punishments, both of them are banished in their own ways.
The difference is that Thor doesn’t make things worse, he actually does stop and look at what he was doing and corrects his behavior. He listens when shit happens and works harder to be responsible and to hold back in the future. Loki, on the other hand, just keeps spitting poison and never admits that he made any sort of mistakes.
They’re both misguided children, they both get some pretty epic smack downs (but they’re both epic Norse gods-slash-advanced-alien life forms), but so much depends on how they act about that, how they treat the trouble they get into, and that’s why Thor comes through it in a way that Loki doesn’t. Right from the moment they face their angry father, Thor is far more open about the way he’s betrayed the ones he loves, even if it will still take awhile yet for him to really UNDERSTAND it.
NOTES/WARNINGS: Nothing really, but we are getting into the bad times now, guys.
I don’t wanna live this life without you I don’t wanna spend the night without you I don’t wanna know what it’s like I can’t dream without you I can’t dream without you Let your fire burn bright for the world to see You are the better part of me When you hold my hand I swear that I believe
Good Charlotte- Harlow’s Song ( Cant Dream Without You)
Over the next several months, Thor and Loki were busier than ever as Odin gave them more responsibilities over the realm. Sigrun was glad that it seemed they were both being judged fairly, but it led to daily arguments between the two brothers on how best to handle things. Between throne room duties and their normal battle training schedules, Sigrun and Loki only saw each other at meals and at night when they would sneak into each other’s rooms.
I've noticed that there's a big theme with distant dads this season. We've already seen Martin and Finn, Jake and his kids, and now the poem Giuseppe wrote about his daughter. What do you guys think of this?
We’ve got a lot of messages about this in the past few days, most of which asking whether Jake’s distance from his kids makes him bad. The writers are definitely taking a close look at a bunch of fatherly relationships this season. Each one is different and deserves its own analysis to try and see what the writers are trying to say.
Jake Jake didn’t have the opportunity to raise his kids for very long [as we pointed out before, he tried raising them for two days in Jake the Dad, but by the time those two days were up, they were already physically older than him].
At the end of Ocarina, we see Kim Kil Whan, already living with a woman and with a picture of his own child sitting beside him, talking about Jake exactly the way a parent would speak about their own child.
Their particular father-son relationship is almost inverse, and they’re struggling to accept that Jake is Kim Kil Whan’s father, when their relative maturity might make it appear otherwise. Kim Kil Whan appears to accept this at the end of the episode. Although Jake is goofy and not much of the ‘parent type’, he still cares a lot and means well.
The tension in Jake’s relationships with the rest of his kids hasn’t been quite so neatly resolved yet, though. The last we saw of TV and Jake Jr. showed them pretty angry with him for being late with the food to their party, and Kim Kil Whan beamed Jake away before they had the chance to talk.
Martin We don’t know the circumstances by which Martin left Finn as a child, but all indications from his appearance in Escape From the Citadel show that he sees his own well-being as being more important than helping Finn. He manipulates Finn to heal his vaporized leg, offering what he knows full well is probably what Finn wants from him.
He then abandons Finn and Jake to deal with the Lich on their own as he tries to escape. Finn, of course, tries to keep him from leaving, and the writers don’t leave much ambiguity about Martin’s role as a father. His self-interest leads to negative consequences for his son.
Giuseppe We know from Giuseppe’s poem that he has strong regrets about something that happened between himself and his daughter. The poem is accompanied by a pretty morbid image of daughters apparently mourning their fathers.
“These are not my teardrops, daughter dear, but just the sheen of dew that lingers here. Past other fields where other fathers lie, who kept their daughters better far than I.” We think this might mean that his daughter actually died, and he is left to mourn her instead.
We don’t know much about his circumstances beyond this poem, but Giuseppe appears to be a father that means well, as Jake does, who also couldn’t be the father that he had perhaps hoped to be.
Conclusion Just judging by these few examples, the writers look to be saying that it’s tough to be a good parent, and there’s a lot of things that threaten to get in the way of that.