“What would people look like if we could see them as they are, soaked in honey, stung and swollen, reckless, pinned against time?”
A modern Zagreus who can’t remember how to breathe without remembering how hollow his bones have become, his skin a gravestone. He was born with death on his tongue, grew black in his lungs, and even then, he was whole, as whole as he would ever be, as whole as he would ever hope to be with his cells only held together with the dust the underworld, veins like vines as if they were trying to hold his bones together, as if they knew where his heart would belong, as if they knew he would wander this earth searching for it again under each shadow. Put your to his chest, feel the pads of his fingertips, there is no warmth within him, no flush on his cheeks, he walks through flames, onto highways, blinded by light and begging for something, anything, anything besides the absent of the beat in his chest. They stitched him back together so long ago, but another already lived with his heart under their skin.
re: the last two anons: However what texts you remain faithful to should always be up for debate. There were several earlier epics ( Alcmeonis (sp?) ) that listed Melinoe and Zagreus (at least) as Persephone and Hades' children. Western colonial historians practiced really lazy academia and had a tendency to turn all cultures barbaric in order to make theirs look better.
Oh certainly, I totally agreed.
Futhermore, in many translations of the story the father of the children is referred as “Chthonios Zeus”, meaning Hades. And since Hades, King of the Underworld and the Dead, was very much a Zeus like figure, it’s very likely that Hades was in fact the father. But of course, many people took Zeus literal (I was one of them, I won’t lie.)
aprilcereijo ha dicho: It doesn’t bother me either way. I have a toddler, so I lean more to the side that includes kids. But not all marriages have or want them. Claudian seemed to think Pluto wanted children, but his story wasn’t finished either. *shrug*
Hi! I don’t mean that people can’t portray Hades and Persephone having a family, of course they can and there is many cute fiction and fan art about it. In my own story Melinoe and Zagreus are Persephone’s children, although spoilers, they both die, and one of them is not Hades’ child anyway.
But… indeed, in Claudian’s story Pluto wants a family and it’s super sad that we don’t get to know what was the ending :(
My point is that, even if it would be cute that Persephone had children from Hades, we don’t have evidence for that, and it’s okay. Hades and Persephone are not any less worthy because they didn’t have children, and the fact that some people want to force sources just to make it happen bothers me because they can make fiction without those sources anyway. Not sure if I express myself.
Is the same thing that happens with those stories of Persephone being black, or lesbian, or not being abducted but willingly descending to pet spirits like Charlene Spretnak’s tale; if people want to make fiction about it, sure, they can do it. But what is the need of twisting the sources to justify something that at the end, is a fictional work? Why someone takes the work of lying and faking sources in order to defend something that is a fiction work? What is the problem of recognizing the story has artistic license and might be historically inaccurate?
Even if I’m super picky about sources and everything my novel has a lot of artistic license. And it’s okay because it’s fiction, not a scholar book. So, unlike many tumblr-users do, I’m not going to force sources just because I want them to match what I made up in my story and trying to say my version is the “true one”.
(And by the way, thank you for the compliments :3 <3)
Hey, I wonder if you can help me. I'm listening to the 8th Doctor stories of the Big Finish Main Range. Now Zagreus is close and I know that other Doctors and companions appear in this story. I have only watched Classic Who until season 12, so I have not yet seen 5, 6 and 7 on screen, nor their companions. Neither did I listen to any other BF play. My question: Do you think me listening to Zagreus will spoil the TV show and/or the 5th, 6th, 7th Doctor Big Finish stories for me? Thanks a lot!
The only thing it will spoil is Leela and Romana’s endings/reasons for leaving the TARDIS/where they end up, and frankly neither of those are really big deals to know about going into their story when you get to their stuff, at least in my opinion. You’ll have known about Romana by the time you get to Neverland anyway.
The Doctor content is…..weird. Zagreus in general is a very strange story, so the 5,6,7 content is not what you expect. I don’t think any other companions come into play other than a weird manifestation of the Brig which isn’t really the Brig at all.
So basically I think you’ll be fine, but don’t sue me if I’m somehow wrong about this lmao
Hey!! First of all, I love your blog!! Second of all, I remember a while ago someone had asked you if Hades ever had any children and I think you said he didn't/you weren't sure (i read it a loongg time ago so forgive me if I don't remember everything or get some things wrong) But don't Hades and Persephone have a child together? I forget her name but she's supposed to be the goddess of ghosts or something along those lines
You might be thinking of Macaria, who is mentioned in the Suda as being the daughter of Hades, although not of Persephone; her mother isn’t mentioned. In this text, Macaria is listed as the goddess of ‘blessed death’ (ie death that wasn’t caused by lame stuff like hiccoughs or cowardice). She’s not found in any other canons though, and is a very minor figure in the Suda, so it’s basically accepted that Hades and Persephone did not have children.
It’s also possible that you’re thinking of Mesperyian, who was invented in a 2009 fanfiction and was described as the daughter of Hades and Persephone. In this fanfiction, Mesperyian is given the title of goddess of pain and torture, and the story goes that Aphrodite was envious of her beauty and burned her face. However, I cannot stress enough that, despite the weird way the story has permeated Tumblr, it is fanfiction. Mesperyian does not appear in a single Greek myth. She’s, like, totally a poser. I discredited her here, but may end up doing a post in future about her, because so many people seem to think she was part of the pantheon when she wasn’t.
The more in depth post about Hades’ children in various canons is here, which discusses Zagreus as the son of Hades as well.
Finally relistened to Zagreus after four and a half years, now blessed with:
knowledge of what the fuck is going on and
the ability to recognise voices!
Thoughts in roughly chronological order:
Paul McGann is amazing in this audio. His performance as Zagreus still sends shivers down my spine.
Saviltride! Lady Louisa! Cecilia Pollard before she became a Nazi!
I love the list of alternate timelines… it’s very reminiscent of the cascade of origin stories from Unnatural History. Zagreus mentions Oblivion! The Horde! Events from the EDAs! The… Nestene?
Also, explicit confirmation that they’re all canon. Which is fantastic. Why are we still debating that?
“YSSGAROTH CURSE YOU, GIRL!” — some creative Time Lord swearing from Zagreus, there. I wonder if by “curse”, he means “taint”…
(Speaking of which, Zagreus infecting the TARDIS feels hauntingly similar to the Yssgaroth infecting House Lolita.)
Eight is wearing boots!
“For King And Country!” — is Dr. Stone part of the Forge!?
!! The Sisters Of The Flame !!
!!! The Starbreaker Eurydice !!!
Regeneration is based on molecules… the Time Lord brain rearranges itself with each new incarnation, and the memories and personality of the previous version are copied over. That’s very Heaven Sent, in a way.
Compared to Interference these are like the kindergarten version of Vampires. In fact, the Divergence seem to be playing the same part here that the Vampires had in Interference. Interesting.
Aw, Vandekirian gets a mention.
… Time Lords are dicks.
“Oh, well, blow that!”
This is a very silly episode.
“Not going to risk taking her hand?” Yes, Doctor, take Charley’s hand. Surely nothing bad can come of that.
I’d forgotten just own unctuous this Rassilon is.
BBV Audio: “Romana literally captured a dual singularity as an energy conduit to provide a sustainable power source and built her own timeship to escape from E-Space!” Big Finish: “lol she found a magic mirror idek”
And now Leela’s eating Rassilon’s brain. Charming.
“Bandrilsnatch.” That’s a bit extra.
This is a very sillyepisode.
“Tweedledum, Tweedledee and their friend Tweedle-Ego!” ❤ Charley.
“The Next Life…” I see what they did there!
If being a little bit in love with the “kill me” sequence is wrong I don’t want to be right.
“And we all know what happened to San Francisco…” I see what they did there!
Oh my god the TARDIS just punched a Nazi Zagreus in the face.
Aww, the Grey Lady in the engine rooms. That’s really sweet.
Eight you are terrible at breakups.
Charlotte you are also terrible at breakups.
DOO WEE OOOOOOOO
That was four hours of… something, alright. It got a bit messy in the third act but I still love it to bits. Props to Alan Barnes and Gary Russell for making it all work!
Cardinal Rassilon believes humanian life - the basic physical form exemplified by Gallifreyans - to be the only essential form of life. He rationalises that for the universe to continue existing beyond the 10'000 millennia indicated previously, the unnamed creatures should be destroyed. All life not conforming to Gallifreyan standard should be destroyed. To this end, Cardinal Rassilon researched life on 278'000 planets. Of those, 69'000 contained sentient life. To those Cardinal Rassilon sent, via manipulation of the space-time vortex, a self-eradicating set of biogenic molecules with enough power to rearrange the cellular structure of each planet’s dominant life-form, so it would take on Gallifreyan physiology and would continue to evolve along those lines. All other lifeforms will become extinct within 6'000 spans.
“Zagreus”, Big Finish Productions - Doctor Who
Really though, if you ever wondered about the in-universe reason for why so many aliens look humanoid, this is why.