and it was about marillion

Been thinking alot about how fandom really focuses on Sansa and ‘lying’. To me, it is very overstated and overfocused considering Sansa never lies with malicious intent to hurt people. Sure, how she shapes and interprets reality in A Game Of Thrones especially with the Trident Incident is important (where she falsely recalls Mycah hitting Joffrey) is important, but it’s not the be end all of the character. How Sansa grows and changes is also vital. Here, I’ll try to make clear that lying is not one of Sansa’s ‘flaws’, she is human and is not perfect but holding her lies against her doesn’t really work.

I don’t mind discussion about how lying impacts on Sansa, and the role in plays within her story- my problem is when people use that as a reason to be against her character.

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anonymous asked:

In the books Sansa fantasizes about Slynt's death. She tries to goad Joffrey into getting himself killed at Blackwater. She covered up Lysa's murder. She's a good person in both show and book but she's not some perfect princess who never dreams of vengeance. And she never faced what Ramsay did to her.

Thanks for the opinion!

I think you missed a few moments:

She pictured the two of them sitting together in a garden with puppies in their laps, or listening to a singer strum upon a lute while they floated down the Mander on a pleasure barge. If I give him sons, he may come to love me. She would name them Eddard and Brandon and Rickon, and raise them all to be as valiant as Ser Loras. And to hate Lannisters, too. In Sansa’s dreams, her children looked just like the brothers she had lost. Sometimes there was even a girl who looked like Arya.

That seemed to amuse him. “Has someone made a song about Gregor Clegane dying of a poisoned spear thrust? Or about the sellsword before him, whose limbs Ser Gregor removed a joint at a time? That one took the castle from Ser Amory Lorch, who received it from Lord Tywin. A bear killed one, your dwarf the other. Lady Whent’s died as well, I hear. Lothstons, Strongs, Harroways, Strongs … Harrenhal has withered every hand to touch it.”

“Then give it to Lord Frey.”

“The damned thing’s as tall as I am,” Tyrion muttered in a low voice. “Half a chalice and Joff will be falling down drunk.”

Good, she thought. Perhaps he’ll break his neck.

She fantasizes about teaching her hypothetical Tyrell sons to hate Lannisters, she tells Littlefinger to give the cursed castle Harrenhal to Walder Frey and actively hopes for Joffrey’s death at the Purple Wedding. She is not a perfect princess, I agree. And she would be an inferior character if she was that. If she didn’t have these (really understandably) spiteful, fierce and ugly thoughts, she wouldn’t be a good person, she’d be a saint and lose me on her being my favorite character.

And, honestly? I really don’t begrudge her any of those thoughts. At all. In fact, I relate to them to a bone-deep degree. Janos did throw her father down and it’s hardly fair for her not to want some justice (note the use of hero in her thoughts about Slynt) to fall on the man for what he did. Joffrey… well, he’s been abusing her since the end of A Game of Thrones. She has more reason than anyone else to want him dead and goad him into an early grave.

As for her covering up Lysa’s murder, it’s certainly not good, but context does have to be taken into account here. Yes, Sansa covered up Lysa’s murder, but she also believes she might leave through the same door as Lysa if she’s implicated in her murder. Thank Littlefinger for making her feel complicit in that. That chapter’s meant to be a tiny bit disturbing because Sansa is being taught how to lie by Littlefinger.

And that being said, she clearly feels guilty about it, constantly having to remind herself that Marillion was a horrible person, someone not to pity because he was vain and cruel. An attempted rapist who forced himself on her and would have gone further if it weren’t for Lothor Brune. The whole chapter is her trying to sift through the lies Littlefinger is (mis)educating her on and chafing at them because innate decency and morals. 

And, as much as she fantasizes about Joffrey’s death… this is how she deals with the reality:

Sansa felt as though she were in a dream. “Joffrey is dead,” she told the trees, to see if that would wake her.

He had not been dead when she left the throne room. He had been on his knees, though, clawing at his throat, tearing at his own skin as he fought to breathe. The sight of it had been too terrible to watch, and she had turned and fled, sobbing. Lady Tanda had been fleeing as well. “You have a good heart, my lady,” she said to Sansa. “Not every maid would weep so for a man who set her aside and wed her to a dwarf.”

A good heart. I have a good heart. Hysterical laughter rose up her gullet, but Sansa choked it back down. The bells were ringing, slow and mournful. Ringing, ringing, ringing. They had rung for King Robert the same way. Joffrey was dead, he was dead, he was dead, dead, dead. Why was she crying, when she wanted to dance? Were they tears of joy?

The gods are just, thought Sansa. Robb had died at a wedding feast as well. It was Robb she wept for. Him and Margaery. Poor Margaery, twice wed and twice widowed.

She’s horrified, confused, and traumatized by the visceral nature of Joffrey’s death. She doesn’t cheer or celebrate it, even though Joffrey was her abuser for quite a good few months. Any personal catharsis found in Joffrey’s death immediately gives way to her thinking about the suffering and sadness of others like her brother’s death at the Red Wedding and what she thinks Margaery must be feeling, having been widowed twice.

In my opinion, this is not a person who would deliberately put someone she hates through a deliberate, cruel, torturous method of death and smile afterwards. I have no qualms about Sansa killing Ramsay for his crimes at all. He deserves death for many many injustices he’s committed. I just believe it should have been done by execution (Like the First Men would), not by being slowly, excruciatingly, devoured by dogs.

If you want more opinions about why I, and many others, would viscerally grate at this and want to be take comfort in the original text, go to @kateofthecanals@turtle-paced, @gotgifsandmusings or @theculturalvacuum. They can make their points better than I ever could. In fact, turtle-paced wrote an incredible analysis of why this scene is… something I do not enjoy.

Go ahead and enjoy your show. I just cannot share in your enjoyment. I apologize if you were expecting a different answer.

Being asked if my parents named me after the Marillion song makes me feel a little better about myself.

Rather than hearing “why did you choose that name?”

Makes me feel like people aren’t noticing I’m trans.

About Sansa and Petyr in The Mountain and the Viper:

You know how I was looking forward to a certain scene in Game of Thrones involving the moon door?

(And it was everything I could ever have hoped for)

Well, in the promo for The Mountain and the Viper

Sansa is being called by the Vale lords to confess about Petyr concerning Lysa’s ‘accident’

Littlefinger doesn’t have a Marillion to take the fall this time around

He’s at least somewhat dependent on her testimony to save his skin and he knows it, you can see it in his face

She has power over him

SHE HAS POWER OVER HIM

SHE. HAS POWER. OVER HIM.