african dwarf frog

I’m just gonna throw this out here again 

Don’t put african dwarf frogs with fish

just don’t do it 

stop recommending them in betta tanks, stop putting them with small fish, stop putting them with shrimp, stop putting them with snails

put the dwarf frogs with dwarf frogs

I’ve been kinda left and right on this issue and taken it on a case to case basis but no it really just needs to stop 

I’ve seen frogs get their front legs get torn off by bettas, I’ve seen frogs nip the crap out of betta fins, I’ve heard of shrimp eating the webbing off their toes, I’ve heard of frogs swallowing and choking on snails, frogs in community tanks are often malnourished and reclusive, I’ve seen many infections take place in our tanks at work from the guppies nipping their legs 

And that is not to mention that the frogs prefer cooler temperatures than most tropical fish 

The only benefit to putting frogs in a community tank is *yay* you get a frog

I used to take a stance of “I guess it’s okay on a case to case basis” but I’m putting my foot down as calling it negligent to mix dwarf frogs with fish 

Imagine if I popped out and said something like “Yeah it should be fine to put a betta and a goldfish together as long as the tank is big enough, the betta shouldn’t pick on the goldfish at all”

Or what if I said “Yeah you can put a 3 spot gourami and an axolotl together, the gourami will probably be too big for the axolotl to eat, and if the gourami nips off its gills or legs they should grow back” 

You’d be all over my ass about it with good reason, yeah? 

This is the same situation. There is a huge host of possible issues that can arise from mixing the frogs with fish, and people seem to tip toe around them. I understand that it’s not easy to find good sources on ADF care, but after talking to enough frog keepers and hearing their stories, the evidence is there

That’s one thing I’ve noticed with a lot of pet keepers, for lack of better word, can be pretty heartless toward the types of animals they personally do not keep, and while that’s kind of mean to say, look at it like this

I’ve heard of a lot of people asking if it’s okay to throw a red earred slider in with their large cichlids, and a lot of fish keepers will say “you can try, but sometimes the turtle will attack the cichlids” without addressing the personal needs of the turtle 

I’ve read turtle care sheets online which talk about mixing fish with them, and some care sheets will recommend african cichlids like yellow labs because they’re too fast for the turtle to catch, without addressing the needs of the african cichlids 

When I got my 30 halfmoon and was asking for recommendations for fish to put in it, somebody recommended doing half water and half land and putting white clouds or rasboras in the water area and putting a chameleon on the land because the chameleon wouldnt hurt the fish, not addressing the needs of the chameleon 

Once you start treating other animals as a side show or a decoration to add to the animals you already have, you really need to reconsider how you keep your pets 

from now on any comments I get of “I put/have a frog with my betta and it worked fine” comments will now be taken as seriously as people who say their betta did fine in a bowl, don’t even go there with me, I’ve heard it a hundred times 

Ultimately it’s just a dangerous idea and it’s putting the animals at risk, that’s negligent and unfair, I’m just going to say it as it is/

It’s like people who keep crayfish with fish in aquariums, the fish are not only at risk of being torn apart once the cray gets lucky, but the cray is at risk of getting nipped when it molts, which can ultimately kill it, that’s putting the animals at risk and it’s a bad idea, I’ve seen people keep crayfish in community tanks many times, and it’s a risk that I never recommend people take 

It’s like how nobody recommends setting up sorority betta tanks on this website due to the risk of the balance breaking and the fish killing each other, and sometimes that never happens, but we don’t take that chance, do we? 

I’ve seen people tell others not to mix two types of fish due to temperature differences or different temperaments and activity levels, so why is it any different for the dwarf frogs? It really isn’t. 

I think I need to change my stance on putting african dwarf frogs in with other fish from “exercise with caution” to “just don’t do it”

There isn’t a lot of good dwarf frog knowledge out there so I haven’t been able to educate myself on them that much, but when I really think about it, it’s not good for the frogs at all

I’ve always looked at it from the stance of “does it hurt the fish” and it doesn’t really, no, I’ve heard a few rare cases of frogs nipping betta fins but those are rare cases, but when you look at it from the stance of “does it hurt the frog” then it brings up a lot of dilemmas which need to be addressed

the most obvious issue is that dwarf frogs are really crummy at getting their food, the fish out compete them big time, the frogs need special treatment to eat, usually putting their food directly in front of their face for them to get any and even then a lot of ravenous fish will go down for it to get some

The less obvious issue is that fish like to nip, all fish are a little nippy, they see things they want to bite and they go in to bite it. While dwarf frogs tend to hide most of the time, they have to shoot up for air once in a while, and during that time it’s often that I see some inquisitive fish going for the legs. I’m guessing this is why so many of them tend to go with missing legs or bacterial infections on their feet. Even if the fish isn’t the direct cause of the infections and wounds, it’s not fair for them to be getting harassed when they go up for air.

A more obscure issue I have is the possibility of the frogs picking up a bit of left over fish food, and they are carnivores and very prone to bloat when they eat pellets or flakes. They should ideally only be consuming a frozen diet. I don’t mix my herbivorous cichlids with my omnivorous cichlids for that very reason. The herbivores can die from consuming too much omnivore food. Bloat can cause death and is a horrible way for an animal to go.

Overall the potential dangers and cons of keeping adfs with fish heavily outweigh the only benefit of “but I really want a frog and don’t want a seperate tank for them,” so I’m not gonna consider it a potential anymore. I never consider it okay to put an animal at risk because you really want it, and adfs should not be an exception to that.

Just keep the frogs with frogs, they’ll be happier that way.

faery-vibes asked:

I sent in an ask couple days ago about my betta dying and thinking it was my ADFs. When I purchased them, they were labeled as African Clawed Dwarf Frogs. Is there a difference?? Or is there even such a thing...

There is no such thing as an “African clawed dwarf frog”. There are African clawed frogs (ACF) and African dwarf frogs (ADF), which look similar as juviniles but are completely different as adults!

African dwarf frogs (Hymenochirus boettgeri)  are small fully aquatic amphibians that stay ~2.5" long. They are social and should be kept in groups of 2+ and the minimum tank size for two is 5 gallons. They like their water cooler than average (70-75F) and eat bloodworms, blackworms, tubifex worms, etc. Note that ADFs have webbing between their front feet, African clawed frogs do not!

African clawed frogs (Xenopus laevis) are also fully aquatic frogs, however, they do not stay nearly as small as ADFs. Adults get 3-6" long (females are much larger than males) and are ferocious predators. They eat nightcrawlers, live fish, frozen krill (shrimp), frozen fish, anything moving they can fit into their mouth. They are not social and do not need to be kept in groups, needing a minimum of a 20 gallon tank for 1-2 adults.

Of course, that is a photo of an adult. Juveniles can be confused with ADFs very easily. Like I said in my response to your post, another dead giveaway is color. ACFs come in albino, leucistic, and dyed varieties. ADFs only come in wild type and, very rarely, leucistic morphs. You will never find that color in pet stores, so if it’s white it’s a clawed frog, not a dwarf!

Clawed frogs will eat any fish that can fit into their mouths, and attempt to eat fish way too big to fit into their mouths. This may stuff a large fish halfway in, crushing it in the process, and either choke on it or spit it out. Or they may catch a fished long fins and try to eat those, which is entirely likely to kill a fish even if they never reach it’s actual body. The shock from the attack (which can last for a while) is enough to kill plenty of fish.

Guys I’m gunna PROBABLY get african dwarf frogs!

So what I’m gunna do:

  • 2 african dwarf frogs, probably one albino
  • 2.5g tank
  • black sand
  • rocks?
  • plants?
  • no need for heater right? (My room should stay above 70)
  • what should I filter with? Probably a sponge.
  • will feed blood worms and brine shrimp (anything else frozen?) chopped earthworm

Advise me!

In other news, I bought an African Dwarf Frog today. I’m going to see if Nassau will tolerate him and if not, he’s going to go into my sister’s tank.
He’s current in a 2.5 gallon unfiltered quarantine tank because I definitely don’t want to put him in with the fish before I know he didn’t bring anything home.
I also noticed that he’s missing his front left foot (poor guy).
I have named him Ripley and will post pictures later.