Castiel’s endgame in the Carver era

I saw a wonderful gif set by @supernaturalapocalypse and I couldn’t help the need to write something about it.

In meta I’ve written before, I’ve been saying that Cas’ endgame has been questioned at least since 9x06. However, the gif set I’m talking about shows clearly that Castiel’s endgame has been foreshadowed since season 8. It’s incredibly obvious that all the Carver era has done is put Cas in a position where it’s crystal clear for the audience what Cas’ choice will be in the end, no matter what. 

It is totally true that Castiel has been choosing Dean since season 4. The first time he did it was in 4x18 (The Monster at the End of This Book). He finally rebelled against Heaven in 4x22 and spent all season 5 defying Heaven because of Dean. The problem is that when the Apocalypse was finally over, the obvious choice for Cas was to go back to Heaven. Nobody could question that endgame for him, so that’s exactly what he did.

In season 6, Cas did everything to stop Raphael from restarting the Apocalypse. He ended up being “god” and went back to Heaven to teach Raphael’s followers a lesson. When he tried to return the souls to Purgatory, the only thing we knew about him was that he wanted to redeem himself, but the Leviathan took control over him and we lost Cas for most of season 7. When he came back and remembered who he was, all he could do was take Sam’s pain to fix at least a little of what he had done. He became what we call “crazy!Cas”, whose motto was “I don’t fight anymore”, except for when he learned that Dean was going to risk his life to clean up Cas’ mess. He ended up in Purgatory with Dean, and from season 8 we learned that Cas wanted to stay in Purgatory to do penance. He felt guilty for everything he had done, and he didn’t think he deserved to be saved.

Castiel, angel of the Lord, went from being a character who belonged in Heaven and turned into a character who didn’t know where exactly he belonged anymore. If you’re a writer, how can you take this character and make him want to stay on Earth? In season 5, Cas’ obvious endgame was going back to Heaven. Is that what Carver wants for Castiel? The answer is NOT AT ALL.

When Carver became the showrunner in season 8, Castiel was unwillingly rescued from Purgatory and became Naomi’s puppet. He was mind-controlled most of the season, but when he had to follow orders and kill Dean, he was given a choice: “You have to choose, Castiel. Us or them?” That was the first time TPTB asked an important question for Cas’ endgame. Cas chose “THEM” (and by “them”, I mean Dean), but when Dean asked Cas “what broke the connection” between Cas and Naomi, Castiel said he didn’t know because, honestly, he had no freaking clue.

Cas fled because once he was himself, he didn’t know where he belonged. Dean was pissed because Cas didn’t stay, because Cas didn’t trust him and ran away with the angel tablet, but what Dean didn’t understand was that it was complicated for Cas. Metatron took advantage of Castiel’s confusion and manipulated him as well. In the season 8 finale, Cas was given another choice. He was going to “close the gates of Heaven” (or at least that’s what he thought), and Dean asked him if he was sure because if he did that, he was going to close the door behind himself and wouldn’t be able to return to Earth. What was Castiel’s answer? He seemed determined. He thought that was the right thing to do, so Dean said it was time for E.T. to go home since they still thought that Castiel’s home was Heaven. In other words, Castiel’s endgame was still to go back to Heaven, at least in Cas’ mind, but not in Jeremy Carver’s mind.

In season 9, Cas became human.  In the season 8 finale, he was even told by Metatron to get a wife and have babies, so Cas was given a different option for an endgame. And guess what? The first thing we saw in season 9 was Cas telling his sister that there might be something even better than Heaven’s order and purpose, down here, on Earth. Castiel looked happy in 9x03 when he was in the Bunker even though he was human. He became miserable when he was left alone in a human life he didn’t understand. He was obviously affected by the fact that the people he considered his friends turned their backs on him. Dean kicked him out when Cas needed him the most. That’s why he was pissed at Dean in 9x06. However, in that episode, Cas was directly questioned for the first time in a more obvious way: “But as what, Castiel. As an angel or a man?” In season 8, Naomi told Cas to choose between “us” = heaven or “them” = humanity. In season 9, Cas was clearly given the options he had: ANGEL OR MAN? Did he answer the question? No, he didn’t because we’ll see the answer to that when Supernatural ends, but that doesn’t mean the Show cannot foreshadow the answer we’ll get.

The first foreshadowing was in 9x22 when Josiah told Cas, “You play at being noble. You play at being one of us. But I look into your eyes… And I don’t see an angel staring back at me.” Cas’ options are to be a man or to be an angel. What is Cas if his own brothers cannot see an angel in him? What is he if they tell him he plays at being one of them? So Castiel’s endgame has suddenly changed. He doesn’t belong in Heaven anymore, but WHY?

The same episode (9x22) gave us the answer in Metatron’s voice: “His true weakness is revealed. He’s in love… with humanity.” That was the episode where Hannah told Cas that the angels gave him their trust. Her words were simple: “Don’t lose it over one man.” ONE MAN. Not Humanity. She was talking about Dean. She wanted Castiel to punish Dean, to kill Dean. But Cas couldn’t. Castiel’s endgame has totally changed because he’s in love. Dean himself told Cas, in the same episode: “You just gave up an entire army for one guy.” The writers didn’t give a clear “he’s in love with Dean” because it was not the right time for the audience yet (there were more seasons to come and we’re talking about the endgame here), but the subtext was there and it was painfully obvious for everybody who has already taken their heteronormative goggles off.

Besides, in 9x23 we got some more confirmation thanks to Metatron’s words:“And the Angel tablet – arguably the most powerful instrument in the history of the universe – is in pieces, and for what again? Oh, that’s right – to save Dean Winchester. That was your goal, right? I mean, you draped yourself in the flag of heaven, but ultimately, it was all about saving one human, right?” Perhaps Metatron didn’t literally say that Cas was in love with Dean, but he said that Cas’ only goal was to save Dean no matter how much he pretended to be Team Heaven. Metatron knew that Cas’ choices were not because of humanity or because of Dean and Sam. IT WAS ALL ABOUT SAVING ONE HUMAN. So, please let those words sink in for a moment.

In the first episode of season 10, we got a Cas who understood that even though being human was painful and could lead to chaos, “not all bad comes from it.” He mentioned art, love, hope, dreams. All of those “human things” as Hannah herself told him. However, when it was Hannah showing him those kind of human things in 10x03, Cas said that emotions and feelings were dangerous temptations. At that point, the mission was everything to Cas and he saw these “dangerous temptations” like distractions that could easily occur. He wanted Hannah to understand that, but how would he know that feelings are dangerous temptations? Maybe because he has experienced those feelings? We just don’t know!

In 10x03, Cas stated two things as his “mission”: getting to Dean (turning him human again) and hunting the rogues. However, in 10x18, Metatron questioned Cas’ mission literally, just in case the audience had not been paying attention. Metatron’s words to Cas: “How many more rogue angels are there out there? And, what are you gonna do once you’re done with all that? Go back to Heaven? Please.” We, as the audience know that early in the season Cas mentioned the rogues as half of his mission. The other half was Dean, but Metatron didn’t know it. The question was valid, though. What is Cas gonna do once he’s done? Go back to Heaven? PLEAAAAASE!! It’s obvious Cas’ engame is not Heaven anymore. “So tell me, Castiel, truly, what is your mission now?”

Cas gave us his mission in 10x22 when he told Dean: “Maybe you could fight the Mark for years, maybe centuries, like Cain did, but you cannot fight it forever. And when you finally turn – and you will turn – Sam… And everyone you know, everyone you love – they could be long dead. Everyone except me.” Staying by Dean’s side is Cas’ mission. So let me ask again, what is Castiel’s endgame?

Has season 11 changed the song that’s been playing during all the Carver era? Not in the slightest! As early as episode 2 we got an angel asking Cas what he is. When Cas dared call himself an “angel of the Lord”, this is the answer he got: “That so? ‘Cause, near as I can tell, when you have to choose between heaven and the Winchesters… You choose them. Every time. So, see, you’re not my brother.” Cas is like “a dog that thinks it’s people” (a reference that has been used twice around Cas so far). He’s not a human, but he tries to be like one. The problem is that Heaven is definitely not where Cas belongs anymore. That’s clear as water. Therefore, the “as an angel or a man” question should have an obvious answer. At least for us, the audience. If people still have doubts, I really don’t know what show they’ve been watching. Cas, on the other hand, still needs to find his answer because he still calls himself an angel and he still thinks he’s “a lot like people”, but that’s not good enough. It’s his ENDGAME, though. So it’s obvious he still needs more time to figure it out. Besides, how can he be certain he belongs on Earth when he’s still not sure his human family will want him?

In 11x06, Metatron made Cas realize that he was sick of being everyone’s tool, manipulated and used by even his friends. Cas’ flashbacks in the same episode showed that Cas is aware of everything he’s done for and because of Dean. He lost Hannah, probably the last angel who didn’t hate Castiel. He has lost all his family in Heaven because of Dean (since the flashbacks didn’t show Sam or Metatron or Crowley or Rowena or anybody else). Now the million dollar question for Cas is: Has it all been worth it? Can you believe the thing separating Dean and Cas this season is the uncertainty they feel toward each other? No more Gadreel, no more fading grace or Mark of Cain. Huh!  

Anywho, I’m sure one of Carver’s objectives since he took the reins of the show was to change Castiel’s endgame. To me, the journey has been pretty evident. Cas will choose to live as a man and will stay with Dean. What sort of relationship will they have? That’s the other million dollar question! But we can remember something regarding Castiel: he’s in love! Also, it wouldn’t hurt to remember that Dean has been set for a romantic interest since season 9 (as confirmed by Sam in 11x04). So… make of that what you will. ;)

anonymous asked:

Disclaimer first - I'm not negative or angry + very pleased will all the lovely TFW we are getting and one thing I'm disappointed in - Is it just me or is Dean/Cas independent! relationship kinda gone-ish, 80% of all the emotional talks are always on TFW as a whole, never just Dean/Cas, even if Sam isnt there. Dean isn't ever refering to Cas in any emotional way singularly anymore (your OUR best, best friend WE've ever had, glad he cares about US, WE dont leave family behind etcetc) and cas too

Yeah, the big declarations have been all like that but having seen the whole “I love all of you” thing, I feel like they’ve been building up to actually have a family first, which is something I guess is way more important as a long term investment.

Something I’m always coming back to is that horrible isolation of Carver era. Well, I’m currently watching season 7 and at that part where they’ve now finally lost everything and it’s just Sam and Dean and not even the car. Like, Hallucifer and hunting and the Leviathan problem are literally the only constants they have from their old lives. Wow. :P

Carver era sort of puts a bit more of a fragile shell around them by giving Cas back, making Crowley a frenemy, and at least has some outside people like Charlie and Kevin even if they get killed off, but then also the wayward daughters characters who survive it, so there are at least some people to hold them accountable… During that time Cas is their only main constant family and even then terrible stuff is always happening to him and he’s always leaving, so he’s not really around except for little hints of what might be, and Cas picks up so much trauma from that too… 

I don’t know, looking at it from as outside a perspective as I can manage, I think with Mary back, and Cas MEANT to be a member of the family but needing serious integration into the family unit (12x03 with that little conversation showing Mary and Cas are struggling with the exact same thing) the show has to actually believably glue these people back together, and even Sam and Dean have huge splits that have barely been addressed (like Dean apologised for the ridiculous “sam hit a dog” grudge they started Carver era with in like, 11x11, I think? Which means they’d been actually on good terms for like maybe 12 episodes when Mary comes back :P) never mind Cas’s ocean of trauma and Mary being dropped among them out of the blue.

There’s been a real theme of teamwork this season in the big confrontation fights - 12x06, 12x07, 12x10 and 12x12 definitely all had teamwork fights taking down one big enemy together, and I may be forgetting some stuff but it’s more than enough for a pattern that they want to show the characters working together as a large and well-functioning unit - and within that, good dynamics, which they’re still working on especially for Mary, who (as we suspected she would) has only really SOLIDLY bonded with Cas because they’re both outsiders - Dean and Sam fight okay with her by their side but they need to work on interpersonal stuff (and I LOVED the shot this episode of Mary and Dean back to back with a wall between them).

To my eyes the TFW (and Mary) dynamic is clearly top priority and really important for the story they want to tell, and I’m loving the fragile way this family is being built and the exploration of the dynamics (now we’re getting later in the season I’ve seen people comment that Mary and Sam got a bad deal, but honestly for the first like 6 episodes of the season I was contemplating devoting my blog entirely to their drama and just forgetting Dean and Cas completely because I was so into what was going on there, and find it really weird people weren’t picking up on that because I thought all the subtext about Azazel coming between them was brilliant use of the characters and it just all suddenly paid off and I probably yelled louder about a Yellow Eyed demon showing up than I did about the whole “I love you” nonsense. :P There’s a part of my soul which is always going to be seasons 1-2 of Supernatural all on their own >.>)

But I think there’s still a ton of DeanCas this season, just underneath the main message they’re pushing, all the stuff like Dean and Cas just being prioritised when it comes to stuff like of course when the season starts Cas urgently gets back to Dean immediately and the story starts with them together. Of course Sam waits with Lily Sunder while Dean rushes off to help Cas. Of course Dean gets all weird and pissy about Cas working with Crowley and Sam like has nothing to do with this, at all. Of course when they get out of prison Dean is phoning Cas urgently to come get them, and sits in the back of the car with him. Of course he’s the one having the angry feud about caring too much vs being reckless after Cas invites his cosmic consequences. Of course when Cas is dying Dean is the one who rushes over to check on him and subtly all through that sequence is the one with the most focus on ALL the reaction shots, and the centre of the drama. 

And the little things like of course Dean phones Cas here, asks him to stay for breakfast there, is the one to hand him a beer and pat his shoulder, holds on just that much longer when he and Sam haul Cas to his feet (which I think is the perfect 1 tiny moment to demonstrate the whole thing of Dean just caring that little bit more even though Sam and Cas easily and happily could consider each other family at this point)

It’s like… Even when they’re not strictly telling us a story ABOUT Dean and Cas alone there’s just a little bit extra something going on between them, constantly, like, they just drift next to each other, or end up paying way more attention to each other? Like Dean at the diner in 12x12, Cas’s presence and the Mandy thing ends up this itch he has to scratch, he can’t stop bringing it up - weirdness between Dean and Cas derails the conversation repeatedly, and from both Cas and Mary’s POV we see Dean almost, like, fixated on Cas’s presence, while he’s all brotherly and annoying to Sam vying for attention complaining about the wifi, Dean just snores at him and goes back to I think just trying to get a rise out of Cas. 

I wouldn’t say any of this is really doing anything with them because the emotional arc right now is Family and creating a plausible version of Supernatural where it’s not two lonely angry brothers and sometimes people who help them and peripheral people they love but don’t, like… function in this way. Not in this whole promised dynamic of how that group exorcism went down in 12x06, or how Sam and Mary and Dean took on a Prince of Hell to save Cas (and even Crowley proved he has his own strange seat at this table there)… But they’re certainly keeping a sort of ongoing feeling there, that there’s just something extra about how Dean feels about Cas, and as usual, with 12x10 especially, the story about angels and romantic love is repeated and used between Dean and Cas, like, that’s all still there… I don’t know, every time something ridiculously small happens like Cas shows up and Dean rotates his entire body to face him on instinct, I’m like, yeah, we’re still existing in a story where Destiel is a presence

Spn s10 finale: no homo???

After the finale aired I was reading a lot of texts and metas about it FOR REASONS. It struck me like hell that in general were negative ones talking about how bad of episode was for a finale and complaining about the supposed no homo… I say “supposed” because at least for me It wasn’t like that and I want to explain myself about this:


First look at Dean in the episode and we see him looking like crap. Aparently he drank himself until passed out. What could that for? Humm…
I don’t recall a Dean so messed up, at least not about Cas, not even in s7 when he thought his angel was dead. And what was his mechanism back then to face the situation? He drank until he fell asleep. So… INTERESTING.


Back in 10x22:
Dean: “I took down a monster, because that’s what I do, and I’ll continue to do that until… (shrugs)”.
Cas: “Until you become the monster”.
So having this in mind It’s obvious to see Dean working in a random case in the next episode. He wants to prove to Cas and himself that no, he is not a monster, he is a hunter because he still can resolve cases. But we see how he fails at this.
Btw, I think it’s clear by now, but Dean reaffirms his well being and his sanity via his job, right? He has been fucked up in the past but in the end he could say “Hey, I’m fine because I still can hunt! ”, so in his mind “hunting = being ok“.
I know, he in fact hunts the monsters and he is not the one who kills Rudy. Yeah, maybe not by his own hands but by his careless, his negligence…
Usual Dean wouldn’t have put someone in that risky situation, not on purpose. And of top of that Rudy was a buddy of him, some kind of companion indeed (more than once we saw the brothers talking with him via mobile about some cases).


1.- Dean washing his hands… trying to wash your sinful hands? Feeling guilty already? Feeling bad? Like a monster?

 2.- Suddenly he sees Cas and he is shocked by it, but he continues washing his hands, compulsively this time.
And you know why? Because at this moment he still wants to deny himself the truth, the fact that HE HAS BECOME A MONSTER, that he became one when he hurt his beloved angel. Even so, I would say he excuses himself thinking that he didn’t kill him when he perfectly could. Maybe he justifies this act saying to himself that he trusted him like no one, that he even gave him the first blade and Cas betrayed him anyway.
He thought that in showing Cas his trust he would trust him back and could see his efforts trying to fight and win the MoC. But no, since the begining he didn’t trust him, he wasn’t supporting him, instead he and Sam were going behind his back.
And if to this we add Cas bringing Sam into the topic, reminding him the betrayal… Not only that, but something worst: NOT ADDRESSING HIS TRUE FEELINGS, not clear enough for an emotional disabled Dean Winchester. Because for Chuck sake! You only have to look at his face when Castiel tells him “ And when you finally turn, and you will turn, Sam… and everyone you know, everyone you love, they could be long dead. Everyone except me ”. It’s the only time we see him dropping his facade!
If Cas had said him his feelings he had stopped in that right moment. Only if he had said him something like “ Everyone except me. I’m the one who will be by your side forever, whatever lies ahead because I LOVE YOU ”. But no, he says “I’m the one who will have to watch you murder the world. So if there’s even a small chance that we can save you,
I won’t let you walk out of this room ”. And Dean knows how badly this would hurt him (remember spn 10x19), but even so he is even more hurt because Cas again is reminding him the conviction he has in Dean turning into a monster; and he talks about working again with Sam with or without Dean’s consent about the issue.
Then, what to do when the person you are in love with thinks of you like that?
In that moment you act like a monster beacuse: who cares anymore?
So as result of this we got the beating back in 10x22… Or I think so.
All of this under the strong influence of the MoC, wich I’m sure was using all these painful feelings to make Dean kill again.

3.- Sooooo, coming back to the topic:
Dean was washing his hands again, trying to shake off Cas image when he suddenly sees Rudy.
He washes his hands ONCE MORE TIME, but immediately he brokes the mirror and begins smacking things.
And why? Why he sees Cas AND RUDY? Why he summons Death after this?
Because he has finally admitted to himself that he is a monster.
I took down a monster, because that’s what I do, and I’ll continue to do that until… (shrugs) ”.
And he can’t do this anymore, an image of a dead Rudy tells him so. Cas was right. He is a monster now. And what it was gonna happen when this moment came?:
“ And when you finally turn, and you will turn, Sam… and everyone you know, everyone you love, they could be long dead. Everyone except me. I’m the one who will have to watch you murder the world ”.
In fact, Cas appears first in the mirror because he is already watching Dean as a monster.
Cas appears first showing him seconds later a dead Rudy, clearly saying to Dean “ You have became a monster and you can´t deny it anymore ”.
Basically Cas is showing Dean the signals… Cas is telling him “ This is the time to stop ”.
And I would add this:
“ Look at me watching you being a monster. Look at me being wounded because you are a monster. Look at my wounded and sad face. Look at this face, it’s like this because you are a monster. And know look at Rudy, look at this innocent man that you got killed. But remember me, how hurt I am and I will be because of you. Because I will keep trying to bring you back but you will keep beating my body and soul up ”.


All of that makes him wants to stop, plans to stop. COLETTE PARALLELS COMPLETED. But he can’t go to Cas because he knows it. He knows Cas won’t kill him. He knows Cas willingly would “ pay in blood (Dean’s words in 10x22 are perfect for this phrase) ” any price trying to save him. And he can’t allow it. He can’t hurt him anymore.


And why Dean no mentions Cas at all when he is talking to his brother Sam?
Isnt it obvious? It’s too painful and he wants Sam to agree with his plan of sacrificing himself, so why give him reasons to not do it so? Because if Dean told “ I killed Rudy and I almost killed Cas”, Sam would say something like “But you didn’t kill him! You were over the edge and you stopped! There is hope! ”, and he would try to save his older brother at ANY COST.


To me was obvious the spell wasn’t gonna be made thanks to Cas’s grace. Why? Because I believe the show gonna end with Cas and Dean together as a couple, both of them being humans.
Maybe at first Jeremy Carver and his writting team planned making Cas give his grace out of love in order to cure Dean. And the angel would become human just like that. Thanks to that gesture, both of them finaly would recognize their mutual feelings, ROMANTIC ones, and… A KISS!!!
But the show got renewed so change of plans.


I think it’s a VERY GOOD thing because this way the brothers will FINALLY see the toxic of their relationship and work about it to a good end, I hope.
And maybe if s11 is the last season we will see a spell to bring The Lightness. One spell totaly opposed to the darkness one.
One spell with LOVE as the main ingredient. This time around, the grace of an angel in love with the last bearer of the mark could be the answer, hehehe!
Or maybe in s11 our boys win their battle against the darkness but they(and the rest of the humanity, of course) find themselves in a post apocalyptic world and… ENDVERSE CANON DESTIEL.

So for me the finale wasn’t that bad, although it wasn’t excelent either.
And OMG! What a long meta!! Thanks if you have read It until the last word!!!
And sorry for my writting but english is not my native language.

anonymous asked:

There's always been unexplained stuff in SPN but S10 makes no sense. Dean became a teen and the Mark was gone. Why was the Darkness still locked away? And what's with the Destiel subtext? Nothing comes out of it. I loved S10 until the last 3 episodes. But Dean telling Sam he should be up there not Charlie? What? And again they choose each other over the world. This only was heartbreaking cuz I wanted them to be heroic as they used to be (Swan Song for example...) but they weren't and it's sad.

Hi, Nonnie! Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I agree with you to some extent that there are some things that don’t make sense in season 10, but I’m gonna try to help you with some of the doubts you have mentioned.

1) Dean became a teen and the Mark was gone. Why was the Darkness still locked away?

The episode where Dean became a teen was 10x12 (About a Boy). At that time, Cain, the original person bearing the Mark, was still alive. Remember Death told Dean that “[he] could remove the Mark but only if [he] would share it with another to ensure that the lock remains unbroken and the Darkness remains bound.” While Cain was still alive, the spell could have been performed to save Dean and the Darkness would have still been locked away. Cain died in episode 10x14 (The Executioner’s Song). Once that happened, Dean became the only “lock”, so voila!

2) What’s with the Destiel subtext? Nothing comes out of it.

I sort of understand your frustration, dear, but I don’t share it. Long before we knew the show was going to get renewed for one more season, I had been saying that the Dean/Cas dynamic was going to get dragged into season 11 if the renewal became a reality. Guess what happened? Yeap. The Dean/Cas dynamic wasn’t resolved! That’s not really surprising, to be honest. Everything indicates that Dean and Cas are endgame (whether romantically involved or not). Season 10 made us question what the hell Castiel’s role is. His role in the season was basically a very obvious “life crisis” for him in some way. Poor Cas doesn’t even know where he belongs. Metatron made him start thinking about it in 10x18. The only thing Cas knew for sure was that he was going to be wherever Dean was (no matter if Dean was murdering the world). However, there’s a lot more to be said about Cas’ relationship with Dean. The subtext is there. We, Destiel shippers, probably wish it became text, but it’s not the time. The show is NOT going to give us something, anything good unless it’s the series final episode. (And noooo… I don’t think that’s queerbaiting. I talked about that over here if you’re interested).

3) Dean telling Sam he should be up there not Charlie? And again they choose each other over the world.

The Carver era has been trying hard to work on the relationships between the main characters. It hasn’t been very solid in myth arcs, but the personal journeys have been interesting. (At least they have been to me). If season 10 had been the last one, the brothers would have somehow resolved their toxic relationship (codependency), the same way that the Dean/Cas relationship would have been resolved. But just as nothing came out of the Dean/Cas relationship, nothing different came out of the Dean/Sam relationship either. OK, true, they chose each other over the world, but next season they’ll have to face the consequences. Sam was ready to let Dean kill him. Dean is aware that they can’t go on like this; that their codependency ends up hurting other people, killing other people. In the end, he couldn’t bring himself to kill his little brother, which is important because they both need to learn to LET GO without having to kill the other person.

Remember episode 9x07? Timmy and his ghost mother? In that episode, Dean said some things that were meant for himself (and for Sam, too). Some of Dean’s words were: “She can’t move on”, “You gotta let her go. You’ll be okay”, “Sometimes you gotta do what’s best for you, even if it’s gonna hurt the ones you love.”

And what did Timmy tell his mom? “Mommy, stop it! Stop hurting people!”

I hated that in season 10 they killed Charlie off, but I understand why it happened. (Though I don’t justify and WILL NEVER justify the dreadful way in which everything happened). Dean and Sam had to mirror each other perfectly in the narrative. Dean didn’t respect Sam’s wish (to die). He couldn’t move on without Sam; he couldn’t let go and ended up hurting people (Kevin died). On the other hand, Sam didn’t respect Dean’s wish (to stay away from the book of the damned). He couldn’t move on without Dean (Sam literally said it in 10x18); he couldn’t let go and ended up hurting people (Charlie died). Both Kevin and Charlie were family and they died because of the toxic relationship between the Winchester brothers. They need to stop hurting people!

However, the answer is not for Dean to kill Sam or for Sam to kill Dean. The answer is to let the other person go, to understand that they’ll be okay. Now that the narrative has turned both of them into the opposite of heroes (and that was ON PURPOSE), in season 11, somehow they should start anew. Their relationship should be different, but don’t expect that to happen all of a sudden. Baby steps, but that’s where we’re going. The final resolution of this will be once they decide they’ve reached their final season. (Maybe season 12?)

Regarding the part when Dean told Sam that it should be him up there. That wasn’t 100% Dean. He was hurting because of Charlie’s death, obviously, and he’s always been hard on Sam when he’s the one who’s made mistakes. Dean was very hard on himself when Kevin died, but he was harder on Sam this time because he had the Mark of Cain and that kinda made him talk without using any type of filter. Or at least, that’s how I perceived the scene.

I’m glad that you didn’t see the season 10 finale as heroic. It wasn’t supposed to be. We’re supposed to question the relationship between Dean and Sam. We’re supposed to feel sick about it. We’re supposed to kinda hate them for what they’ve done. You know why? The show’s always been about the brothers, blah, blah, blah. But the brothers have always had a destructive relationship that we didn’t care to question before. They get people killed and as long as those people are not favorite characters, we seem to be okay with that. What happens when the so-called “family” gets hurt in the name of the “brodependency”? That’s when we don’t like it because our heroes seem more evil than the villains. The thing is that our heroes are not perfect. They’re not totally good, but they’re not totally bad either. Hopefully, this time they learned their lesson. They will have to save the world AGAIN, and once they do, they will be ready to walk their separate ways and move on. They’ll be ready to be brothers. No more surrogate son, no more father figure. Just brothers.

anonymous asked:

I saw your post with spn and queerbaiting. Even though I ship destiel, I think it was pretty obvious that, indeed, it's queerbaiting. I understood this in s8. I think after horrible s7 and somehow s6, they had to improve their ratings and with destiel it was rly easy. Well, they brought back interest and slowly started killing their chemistry again with keeping them apart in s9 and s10. I'm pretty sure that after this season where ratings were rly low, they'll bring destiel back in s11. It's sad

Hi, Nonnie! The topic of queerbaiting is a very serious one because I know it affects people in very different ways. That’s why I also know the opinions regarding Supernatural and queerbaiting can vary a lot.

Wikipedia gives this definition of queerbaiting:

The term [querbaiting] refers to what happens “when people in the media (usually television/movies) add homoerotic tension between two characters to attract more liberal and queer viewers with the indication of them not ever getting together for real in the show/book/movie”.

As this definition states, a queer relationship or character is hinted at to attract/appeal to the queer market, and then is denied, either modifying the character’s behavior (making them enter a heterosexual relationship), playing it off as a joke (sometimes a recurring joke or trope), or denying the assumptions (in interviews, panels and such) without modifying the character’s behavior. (x)

This could be proof enough that Supernatural is queerbaiting because (according to some people) they have modified the characters’ behaviors, made them enter a heterosexual relationship (not long-term), or denied the assumptions. However, in my case (and this is me and me only; what I choose to believe doesn’t have to be a complete truth or the rule that others have to follow), I’ve chosen to wait before shouting “queerbaiting!” because of the line “with the indication of them not ever getting together for real in the show”. We don’t know that yet. There’s no way we can know that. We will know for sure only when Supernatural is over for good.

Regarding the 3 things that prove queerbaiting:

1) They modify the characters’ behaviors. I don’t think TPTB started killing Dean and Cas’ chemistry in season 9 or 10. Dean’s arc was related to the Mark of Cain. It was his total downfall. He was supposed to be getting dark and murderous. He couldn’t do that with Cas near him all the time. Season 9 and 10 still gave us a Castiel that would do anything for Dean. How did he change? Season 9 gave us a Dean that was happier when Cas was around no matter how dark he was getting, and season 10 gave us a Dean who even trusted Cas with the First Blade, who defended Cas, and who could not kill him despite the urges of the Mark. The focus of the show is NOT Destiel and it will NEVER BE. People should remember that more often. I understand seasons 9 and 10 as moments needed for some individual character growth. Both Dean and Cas had journeys that couldn’t be influenced by the other. Dean is finally saying out loud what he wants his endgame to be. And Cas is getting closer to saying it, too. I don’t want Dean and Cas to have a codependent relationship. I’ve appreciated the fact that each of them has had their own journey (no matter how badly written) and that at the end of such journey, they might find each other.

2) They make them enter a heterosexual relationship. People might remember 9x03 (April and Cas) and 9x08 (Suzy and Dean), but those were not long-term relationships. They were one night stands (that if analyzed in context taught both of them something important for their character). Tell me one show with a slow burn story that doesn’t give the main characters the chance to hook up with somebody else for at least one episode! Supernatural is NOT about romance, so Dean or Cas won’t be given permanent love interests whether straight or queer. Why aren’t they given a queer one night stand? That would be kind of silly! If they did, they would totally ruin the suspense regarding the Dean/Cas dynamic. How could Dean be with another guy and not with Cas after all these years? How could Cas hook up with a man and not with Dean after everything he’s been through with Dean? The show simply won’t go there. We shouldn’t be expecting something like that. Is that queerbaiting? All I know is that in a genre show like Supernatural, even if Cas were a woman, Dean and Cas wouldn’t be together yet.

3) They deny the assumptions. Hmmm, not really. We haven’t been given comments by the people that matter. Jensen can say that Dean is straight and that wouldn’t matter because he’s an actor, not a writer. Actors don’t even see parallels or other things that we pick up very easily. They’re not into the show the way we are. Their experience is totally different. On the other hand, everything that happened in the 9x03 fiasco (what with Chad Kennedy saying that they had no intention of having a bi character or Guy Bee saying that we were upset for something that was simply not part of the show) didn’t come from the people that matter either. Nothing has been said by Jeremy Carver or Rob Singer. The writers of the show always leave it open. Is that queerbaiting? Are they just leading us on? Maybe. But WE CAN’T KNOW THAT UNTIL THE SHOW ENDS FOR GOOD.

As I said in another post, “[TPTB] have set a very good love story for Dean and Cas, one that cannot be denied on rewatch once the series ends. If they have Dean and Cas get together at the very end of the series, everything they’ve done so far can be used to “prove” that was their intention all along. Which is exactly what I think they’re gonna do.”

That’s why I don’t think we can definitely call it queerbaiting yet. How long did it take for Mulder and Scully to get together? How long did it take for Castle and Becket? Or for Brennan and Booth from Bones? Nobody ever called those queerbaiting because the three were female/male dynamics. But the slow burn was there. So, Supernatural is giving us either the most epic slow-burn love story ever told or the biggest queerbait in the history of ever. I still believe only time will tell which one it is.

roseisrestless  asked:

Heya! This may seem like an odd question, but im not very knowledgable on the topic of the SPN writers. Could you break it down for me? (I hear a lot of bad stuff about Singer, but Edlund seems to be everyone's cinnamon roll.) Thank you so much!

Pls allow me a minute to stare at the rainy window and reflect on the fact that I am now apparently an expert on details like this. :P

Not all the writers have much of a fandom personality cult. Like, for example, Andrew Dabb will this season probably be the writer with the MOST episode writing credits to his name, and I’ve been in the fandom a year and half now and seen like, 3 revivals of “we MUST attempt to fangirl Dabb more!” with limited success of the awareness campaign. (To be fair, it’s a lot of episodes to remember :P) He doesn’t have a social media presence so far as I know (or he doesn’t utilise it interestingly enough for it to have ever been brought to our attention) and he hasn’t been responsible for many fandom scandals, and generally just sort of does what he does, and so he passes somewhat under the radar as a character, despite my various attempts to start a one-sided fight with him to make him more interesting to fandom about. Of the current writers, aside from him, the ones I know next to nothing about are Jenny Klein, Nicole Snyder and Eric Charmelo, with an honourable mention for Adam Glass who left before the end of season 10 but is still vaguely current anyway, and Nancy Won, his replacement, who we know very little about just because we haven’t had time to get to know her yet, so I’m not going to mention these writers. And if there’s someone else currently on the staff I’ve missed it’s because I literally do not know enough about them to remember their name, because I’m feeling dubious I’ve mentioned everyone. :P

Anyway. To business, on the ones who get discussed a lot and therefore I know anything about them at all and have opinions or can regurgitate fandom opinions when I don’t actually have any (there’s a lot of that in here… :P), but can tell you what other people seem to be saying when these names come up. (Which means some negativity below the cut, sorry, I’ll get the worst out the way first) 

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