2nd wave of feminism

about terfs

I know fighting TERFs is really important to you, and I really admire you, so I wanted to share this with you, because I am hoping it will be helpful. Pardon how long this turned out to be, but I wanted to tell you everything I could think of that might be useful, so, here goes.

I used to be a TERF (a rather prominent one, when I was involved–my username at the time was thesecondsex or something like that, I don’t remember it was a long time ago, and it’s really quite far behind me) and have been away from the group for 2-3 years, and have been actively anti-TERF for about a year now. I only tell you that to give you context for what I’m going to say.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that while I don’t think you’re WRONG, I think that one of the things that stands in the way of destroy TERF-ism is calling blanketly-fascist rhetoric ‘terf’ rhetoric.

Let me explain. It was really easy for me, when I was a TERF, to think of myself as a regular old leftist who just loved women more than ‘libfems’, as TERFs call them. I was same-gender attracted and felt uniquely oppressed because of that. (You see I still carry some of the rhetoric even now, but that’s the language they use and how I classified myself. It’s not a surprise to you, I’m sure, that while not all exclusionists are TERFs, all TERFs are exclusionists.) Lots of TERFs are marxists, lots of them are women of color (I’m black) and the anti-racist rhetoric is there. It’s easy to say TERFs are inherently more racist (and there are plenty of racist TERFs) but that’s oversimplifying their viewpoint. All of their bullshit comes from their inherently fascist way of thinking of sex and gender. First of all, to TERFs, sex is obviously dyadic. Sperm fertilizes eggs, sperm come from people with penis and testicles, men, eggs come from people with ovary and uterus, woman. Women are oppressed because they can bear children (see Simone deBouvoir’s A Second Sex, a beloved TERF text–and more proof that TERFs and ‘radfems’ are one and the same. Radfems are just TERFs who won’t say tr*nny, but the rhetoric is the same, and the ideology that backs it is the same.) and so women’s oppression is based on biology. Blah blah blah, there’s more, but that’s the foundation for why they think they are justified in exluding trans women from their definition of womanhood: because women are oppressed because of their biological sex, female, which is being equipped with the assumed-child-bearing-parts. Intersex people are defined as a biological aberration, not that that’s why I think, but that’s how TERFs think. It’s a pretty basic, elementary-school concept of sex and gender, with a bit of 2nd wave feminism sprinkled on top, but they’re just not very educated on the topic of biological sex, period. (More on this later.)

So basically, the point is that TERFs think they’re leftists, and they think they’re oppressed because they are 'female’, so to speak, not because they’re women. Lots of TERFs are GNC, WLW, and don’t feel lots of connection to either cis-ness or woman-ness, which is another reason the picture of them as right-wingers a.) is oversimplistic and b.) means the message goes right over most of them because they dismiss us out of hand when anti-TERF activists assume they’re really 'cis’, because lots of them feel they don’t benefit from cisness the way other 'cis’ women do (they do, obviously, but they can’t see it because sex and gender and sexuality are all tied up together in weird ways that changes from society to society). It also makes lots of young, impressionable WLW scoot that way because they feel that society, and men specifically, are preying upon them. They pass around stories about trans women who maybe don’t pass very well and are arrested for sexually predating upon women to say all trans women are autogynephiles who want to rape women and lesbians, specifically. That’s where all that bathroom stuff comes from… TERFs are genuinely afraid of trans women that don’t pass well because they are genuinely terrified of men, and then trans women that don’t pass are basically men in their eyes, and thus the only reason they could want to be in women’s spaces is to rape them and hurt them. Lots of TERFs have histories of sexual violence with men, and use that to excuse their hatred of men and, by extension of their warped worldview, trans women. It’s fucked up, and obviously requires Olympic-level mental gymnastics to come to these conclusions, but… that’s what they think lol. Lots of rhetoric about raping lesbians, which I can’t really comment on because I’m bi, and thus don’t know what it’s like to be a lesbian and also never had a problem with dating trans women anyway. Lots of rhetoric about 'bihets’ and opposite-gender-partnered bi women being traitors and 'choosing’ men etc etc

Which leads me to the fascism. TERFs are inherently fascist because they hate men. I know lots of feminists get accused of 'man hating’ but TERFs really do, and they are genuinely terrified of them and see them as threats. Lots of the most popular 'fuck men’ posts, no matter how good the post is, come from TERFs. There’s a reason political lesbianism is something that gets tossed around bisexual and heterosexual TERF circles, and it’s because eschewing men is seen as something VERY admirable. TERFs treat men the way that other fascists treat their target group. Some people in the alt-right/KKK are tolerant of self-hating black people, and similarly, some TERFs are tolerant of men and trans women–you’ll even find trans women and trans men and even some non-binary people (talk about cognitive dissonance) in TERF circles, and TERFs (just like the alt-right) love to point to these people as proof that they’re not REALLY fascist.

TERFs also like to say that they don’t want trans people dead, and lots of them probably don’t, actively, want trans people dead. again, this doesn’t matter; they support and hide and protect the ones that do, and their rhetoric and the things they want to achieve do that whether they say they want it to or not, and they know this, but their allegiance to female-ness and sex-based oppression is simply more important. they’ll say this, more or less, in their 'women first’ kind of rhetoric. it’s just dog whistling for 'men and trans women’s lives are worthless

The whole reason they hate trans women is because they think of them as men who are infiltrating feminism, which is, in their eyes, very, very bad. TERFs disagree about how bad this is–some TERFs think trans women are more of a threat than cis men, and some TERFs think cis men are the bigger threat, but because TERFs and trans women have more points of contact (because TERFs think they’re leftists, and thus infiltrate leftist spaces) and because TERFs are, by and large, cis women who oppress trans women, they’re able to do waaay more damage to trans women than they’d ever do to cis men. Also, cis men are TERFs oppressors and thus are able to oppress them. But that feeling of 'men are bad, men are inherently violent, men are inherently rapists, men are inherently, naturally evil and women are inherently, naturally good’ is what makes them so keen on gatekeeping trans women out of womanhood, because they’re rightfully afraid of men, but think the only thing that separates trans women from cis men is aesthetics, because, again, their understanding of sex and gender is extremely lacking.

The reason trans men are rejected is because they’ve basically rejected womanhood. However, TERFs don’t hate trans men and most would gladly accept them into women’s spaces before trans women because to them, a vulva is what it means to be a woman, and lots of trans men have that, so…

So my point in all of this is that I think it obfuscates how TERFs operate, how they infiltrate leftists spaces, and that they ARE fascists to call other forms of fascists speech 'TERF rhetoric’ or to draw parallels between TERF rhetoric and other forms of fascist rhetoric. The whole thing about failing to realize how oppressive and how bigoted something is, I think, comes from an inherent lack of understanding of what fascism is. People really don’t understand what it is, especially young people–and Tumblr is very, very young.

I left TERF-ism because I’m black, really. I couldn’t stomach watching black trans women dying, and I didn’t really see how they were hurting feminism or infiltrating womanhood. All I could see was those women’s victimhood and I couldn’t be a part of that anymore–but even after I stopped associating with those people, stopped reblogging and liking their posts and stuff, I agreed with them, deep down.

It was two things that made me realize, intellectually, that I was wrong, and not just dislike their methodology but disagree with them on a fundamental level.

1.) understanding what fascism was. I knew that other leftists thought I was a shitty bigot, like, obviously TERFs are aware that other leftists hate them and want them dead, but that just makes them feel more oppressed, honestly. The conversation I heard that made me realize I was a fascist wasn’t anything about TERFs, but it was about the definition of fascism and the definition of politics. The speaker defined politics as, basically, the way we decide who gets to live and thrive in our society, and who in our society is an acceptable target for violence and whose lives are disposable. The speaker said that leftists think that everybody gets to live and thrive, everybody except for people who would try to deny other people that same freedom, aka, fascists. And the only thing fascists have to do to be able to live and thrive in a leftist society is to stop being fascists, which they can do at any time. Fascists, on the other hand, think that the only people that get to live and thrive in society are people like them. White people, able-bodied people, straight people, whatever it is. And there is no way for people that are caught outside of that to ever become white, straight, cis or able-bodied. So fascist ideology is inherently violent. And it wasn’t until it was explained that way that I could easily sort through what was 'fascist’ and what was 'non-fascist’. I could use that to measure up my anti-racist activism… not fascist. LGBT/queer rights? Not fascist. Disability activism? Inherently leftist, actually. But TERF-ism? There was no way for men or trans women to ever be entitled to live and thrive in a TERF world, which made me realize that TERFs are inherently fascistic. I didn’t want to be a fascist, and fascism sucks, and doesn’t make any sense, and is cruel and harmful. So, that was what really made me do a 180, intellectually, about TERFism, was seeing the parallels between what fascism definitionally is, and what TERFism definitionally is, and how one can be defined by the other.

2.) Second thing that made me realize, intellectually, that I was wrong about gender was reading about science and biology. TERFs have a very elementary understanding of those topics, but honestly it’s hard to get them on that. Feminism is a social science, and lots of TERFs find it pretty easy to just avoid any scientific information that doesn’t mesh with their idealogy already. It’s not surprising, I’m sure, to find out that the graph of “transphobic shittiness” and “doesn’t know jack shit about biology” is a straight line. Lots of TERFs are smart, educated, etc. But about biology? Not so much.

I personally think the best way to point out how TERFs are fascists is to draw parallels between what fascism definitionally is, and how TERF ideology and rhetoric is literally exactly that. Lots of TERFs are Jewish, poor, wlw… so drawing parallels between TERFs and anti-semitism, racism, classism or homophobia doesn’t resonate with TERFs or TERF sympathizers, and people that hate TERFs already know TERFs are fascists. Things like anti-semitism, racism, etc etc… that’s not really TERF rhetoric, anymore than it’s racist rhetoric or homophobe rhetoric. All fascists are going to share some common rhetoric because they’re all fascists. TERFs don’t think of themselves as fascists, though. They think of themselves as leftists, so saying “TERF rhetoric sounds like anti-semitism” isn’t convincing to TERFs because they don’t think they are anti-semites or racists or homophobes or whatever, and they don’t see the similarities or parallels, and if they do they shrug it off or attribute it to something else.

That being said, I think it’s important in leftist spaces to point out language specific to that community that mirrors TERF rhetoric. One, because that is probably the canary in the coalmine about how bad this particular ideology is, and two, because TERFs hide in those spaces.

Again, my point isn’t to say what you said was wrong or bad or even that you shouldn’t do it. I don’t think it’s my place to say how trans women interact with TERFs, and besides, I think you’re factually right–TERFs and anti-semites say many of the same things because it’s all fascism. My point is only to give you what I think might be more effective tools in how to engage with TERF, TERF rhetoric and other spaces where TERFs might be lurking.

Besides discussing fascism and biology specifically, making it clear TERFs aren’t welcome in leftist spaces is ENORMOUSLY EFFECTIVE. TERFs complain, bitch, moan unendingly about how unfair it is that other leftists don’t want to play nice with them. Every single leftist that runs a stim blog or an anti-racism blog or a discourse blog or whatever, all of them, they ALL need to just put in those “if you’re a TERF/radfem don’t interact” disclaimers because it really does help break TERFs apart and keep them from feeling comfortable. This is effective specifically because so many TERFs are leftists-other-than. Spoonie TERFs, TERFs of color, lesbian/bisexual TERFs, they all want to seek out resources in these spaces, and they really can’t see why they’re excluded and trans women aren’t, and honestly, it was something that really bothered and hurt me, and that’s a good thing. It made it honestly just… not worth it. I wasn’t willing to lose other wlw and other black people to keep being a transphobic piece of shit.

Pointing out how transphobia specifically harms women that are oppressed on other axes as well is also helpful. Seeing how much your chronic pain and disability and neurodivergency affected your ability to access resources as a trans woman made me realize how much I was hurting spoonies and other ND people by being a TERF. It makes it hard to push out trans women when they are your allies in other spaces, and when it’s clear the oppression you share together is worse for them because they are also oppressed for being trans. That is probably the #1 thing, emotionally, that hit me, was realizing how much I was hurting not 'trans women’, because TERFs don’t give a fuck about them already, but how much I was hurting black people and ND people and disabled people and queer/LGBT ppl who also just so happened to be trans, because you can’t adequately address racism or ableism or homophobia without addressing how transphobia intersects with them, too.

The attack against TERFs should be two-pronged. Destroying their power in leftist/SJ spaces by pushing TERFs out, and by pointing out how language people use INSIDE communities (not how TERFs sound like other fascists, but how leftist language can come from TERF sources and echo TERF rhetoric, and to be extra-vigilant and wary of those spaces and the people, rhetoric and ideology that come from them) can be TERF-like. Also, again, reminding TERFs who do exist on other axes of oppression that they CANNOT adequately address those forms of oppression without acknowledging that transphobia hurts trans women uniquely. And the second prong is actually convincing individual TERFs, but I think that’s not a job for trans women to do, that’s a job for other cis people to do. And it doesn’t ever involve specifically talking to or with individual TERFs, which I’m sure you know. Discourse just feeds them. But pointing out how their rhetoric is inherently fascistic, and sharing as much correct information about biology and sex and gender as possible, is the best way, I feel, to convince individual TERFs. Not that, again, I think that’s really necessary, but it can certainly feel good and it disrupts them greatly to lose theorists and rhetoricians from the community. It’s also important that if an article is written for the explicit purpose of convincing TERFs, then it needs to be as TERF-friendly as possible, in that it shouldn’t be written with the air of educating a bigot, because bigots don’t think they’re bigots, not usually. If a TERF reads an article about biology and feels like it’s a vehicle for talking about trans people and gender theory, they will dismiss it out of hand. But if it feels like it doesn’t have an agenda, but the facts presented don’t mesh with TERF rhetoric and TERF information, then it CAN plant a seed that starts to grow cracks in the ideology, and start people asking questions.

Mostly I want to give you hope, and let you know that TERFs are bigoted, transphobic shitstains, but they’re not a lost cause, and the problem is not insurmountable. They’re also generally powerless outside of leftist/social justice spaces. They can be very loud and very aggressive and very virulent. They are extremely unpleasant and it can be very hurtful, I imagine, to be rejected by 'feminist’ women for not being a 'good enough’ woman. But 1.) TERFs don’t own the concept of womanhood, society does, and I think society has made it clear that trans women are definitely women. So, like, on that note, honestly fuck what TERFs think, because what they think is wrong. and 2.) they can change their minds. they can be defeated. they can be scoured away to a corner of the internet so small, it exists only as proof of how tolerant a society we have.

Anyway this is what I have to offer–information that, maybe, not being on the inside of their weird, freaky little cult, you didn’t have before, but now you do. Do with it as you will! Have a beautiful day, Sam, as beautiful a day as you are :)

[END]



Simply put, this is the best takedown of TERFs and their ideology that I have ever read, and honestly, this should be mandatory reading for any and all trans allies. I have so much I want to say right now because wow, but I’m going to keep this short.

I have the advantage of having a friend - one of my closest, dearest friends - who used to be a TERF (not Nonny, I assume). I am flipitant about TERFs because little of this is new to me and when I encounter them I simply block them after a little snark. No platform and all that.

But there are a few points that stunned me because I never connected them. And oh my gosh are those connections important.

I especially appreciate the points you made about intersecting axes of marginalization. It is easy to forget that TERFs are people to, with valid needs for support. I think conceptually I sort of danced around those ideas but they never fully resolved into something I could articulate.

Thank you so much for taking the time and energy to write this. You are an absolute gem for doing so and I really appreciate it. 

- Sam

who’s who in radfem tumblr!

this is obviously not an exhaustive list and if you’re not on it, i promise it was not purposeful; there’s just so many of us! please shoot me a message if you’d like to be included on the next one i’ll make, and i’ll be sure to put you on it. 

not everybody on this list is a radfem – some are lesfems, some are marxist feminists, some are rad-leaning, some are womanists… – and some of these blogs aren’t even political – but we all prioritize women, so we’re all worth a look! 

i’m sorry it’s not alphabetical this time, i just really did not feel like going through and alphabetizing all these blogs lol.

enjoy!  – mod alicia

@vulva-o-keeffe @radfemblog @hembrista @quantum-wordsmith @zombiescominginmywindow @high-on-pussy @terfscorpion @radgems @raddbabe @fantaparrot @lesbianistheword @blackholesandlesbians @izzy-pea @radmadican @radical-feminism @jillyisntfromphilly @evilterf @urfriendlyneighborhoodlesbian @feminism-for-me @etherealradlesbian @gencritical @wishicouldposthisonmymainblog @dog-goddess @girlschasinggirls @tr1angl3 @bloodyfeminist @sevenpistachios @radbelle @lesbianvriskaserket @antiporndafemqueen @radicaldragoness @lesbiraptor @radunicorn @theuntameableshrews @olivethelesbians @roses-for-radfems @sunflowerradfem @poup @2lazy-2die @the-stars-are-terfs @sociallyanxious-lesbian @radfemroe @yonicfever @daenerys-terfgaryen @ghostfem @pandasandshit @inlovewithashootingstar @terfinator420 @wheresmyredpillmorpheus @radicaldolphins @thecasworks @rpg-lesbian @gendercriticalsideblog @capitalisfem @good-girl-gone-radd @littlemeowth @eris-against-gender @sapphic-matriarchy @confirmed-terfs @dykesarerad @cosmogues @bsambins @trappist1kid @radfemdva @totallyradicalblog @grumpyoldnurse @radsad @aggressivgammalko @radicalbumblebees @protectedbymedusa @radfelis @roedfeminist @misandricmedusa @thegoodandbadifem @cheekless0nion @radical-grape @dykeashell @distancetiming @marxistpunk @pamperedpunk @quietlyrad @ste-genevieve @radladiesunite @meanterf @nigerian-girl @vagitarian-validation @les-bi-anity @lesbians-or-gtfo @musclev @femalefemalefemale @the-raddest-captain @purefeminism @sataniclabia @wayward-uterus @poehlerise @lilyradfem @ficklewitchsupporter @bi-canadian-radfem @destroyyourbinder @areyouorhaveyoueverbeen @februaryiron @gender-abolition @dyke-bytes-back @devil–pussie @e-cryptid @radmatriarchy @yourkinkisstillnasty @radfemradfemradfem @radredconfetti @mothermayhem @terftastictruth @cliteralviolence @cannibalitchi @trash-fem @warmfuzzydyke @radfemsuggestions @ardously @uterusbear @radicalfemlez @rad–qxeen @nervousfeminist @vaginyl @anarchistmermaid @braticalfeminist @royalbloodedradfem @lavendermenacing @byesexualqueen @vampire-vulva @catwym @nametheproblem @the-incredible-dyke @angryradfemwitch @radhexx @lesbianpride @spaceycynic @hormoaning @5ide3-b10g @vagina-dentataa @supermagicalpotato @themagicalradical @gendercriticalpineapple @imagineifterfs @iloveradfems @radfemjourney @cuddly-trash @girl-hands @estrogenanddefiance @radpolmemes @lightlychild-lightly @radicalcowgirl @fempizzadough @studyradical @radical-f @avantguardianofthegalaxy @tiredofyourbu11shit @cervicaldischarge @plaidfem @dogradfem @hashtagnotallmen @labialovegood @nansheonearth @feministpopup @907972 @terf-official @tairebear @misaandry @not-just-another-fake-lesbian @pretty-rad-poet @womannotfemale @exportingfeminism @vegan-radfem-witch @littlebisonheart @fyxan @cheerfuldyke @tunisian-female @anti-female-receipts @radwitchbadwitch @abolishgender @verysmallradfem @rad-fems-are-rad @radfemprobs @idkwhatradfemis @grim-haystack @hermione-is-a-radfem @iamnothedwig @month-0f-august @radical-menace @rainingtreefrogs @clittymcgee @radflash @snowwhite0dwarves @latinaradfem @kinkreceipts @radfauna @petalbed @little-witch-heart @omnivore-odyssey @trans-activism-is-a-cult @the-big-rad-wolf @down-the-left-hand-path @revatron @flowerpetals2wood @actually-a-lesbian @thehowlingwolf @feathered-friend @grrrlxblood @themutantgene @radredrecluse @lajolielune @lesbianpriority @radicalwitch @transgender-harms-women @antigonesque @omgsufferingsappho @puzzle-a-puma @furiosa-of-the-vuvalini @radfem-chronicles @rad-mist-riot @feministarchives-internet @prettyvulva @daisydeadhead @eco-feminist88 @the-ili-rad @wimminwomynwomon @cornerstorebitch @gothradfem @vulvacrat @jesusisamanatee @the-angry-alien @fallopian-toob @incrediblesbian @radgyrl @probablyghosts @powerdyke @lunalit @horsequeen666 @tiffany-the-terf @highonthesoundd @northernwoman @eco-rad @thedeathofthe-moth @sahuarospine @rad-bad-and-dangerous-to-know @light-blue-bad @deepgreenfeminist @lesbianpulpfiction @controversial-feminist @dragoncooch @immunetothezombievirus @daokaygirl @vulvafuriosa @criticalpeach @dolores-del-bosque @oatmealtrash @frustrateddyke @lez0mbie @grassbian @lostinatlantictimes @female-tribbers @yoursocialconstructsareshowing @joanofrad @sephoriasskeleton @terfamisu @vulvapunk @wayward-womyn @vulvatalk @furiosafemale @spencer-shayy @vaginafetishizingwitch @prediculouss @punch-your-buns @suffixbattle @ddoppelmoral @femaleandradical @imagine-men @fallopianfury @callioscope @awaitingthematriarchy @weloveradfems @gynocentric-aesthetic @radfem-suggestion @radicalsquirrel @iamalittlebifurious @clit-lit-101 @mautlyn @jendahsucks @terf-suggestions @bi-vampixre @queen-elisabitch @cyberradfem @radical-thinking @prettyprincessdolphin @whiskey-and-c41 @radical-sloth @smalldarlinglesbian @polyglotsappho @aawb @lesmiserablesbians @parliamentaryinquiry @blindbabyhasitsmotherseyes @ifhellwasagirl @madicalfeminist @veganxwomyn @radicalfmist @memelovingradfem @auntiewanda @theoldlesbianwithcats @walkyriesrising @theversatilist @sadfemradfem @raeucherweibchen @cecaeliawitch @vulvapunx @lesbianwicce @grumpy-radfem @theyrelesbians @qualitynighthideout @curiousradfem @toppdyke @lusterdustt @please-call-me-terf @marsinlibra @saintemere @letspretendhappyend @78novagrrrl @randomstabbing @halalbarbie @daisybeam @pistachioannie @aurorevallee @biconique @furiousradfem @hawleyqwin @flowerlygirls @tempetesirene @female-only @radgirlbadgirl @blackswallowtailbutterfly @lesbiantonysoprano @judith-hopps @harsh-girl-positivity @angryfuckingwoman @radfem-suggestions @harveymllk @shamelesslyunladylike @guideonragingstars @genderdontreal @itsalwayssunnyinportland @leeeeeeeshy @teenageradfem @lowkey-radical @femfang @sapphicdesi @radicalfemale @radfemmm @radfemlands @tired-bi-radfem @aferret @sleepyducky @feminist-female @radfemdreamer @vuvaliniterf @sweetradleaningconfessions @witchvnts @selfengineeredradical @exlibfem @fall-and-shadows @uterusperson @probably-hates-you-already @dykewym @kinksaregross @radsansa @dirtwife @femmefrequency @radicalmathematical @tiredofgender @ajoyforanastasia @destroymales @tightbra @misandry–queen @vegan-radfem-euphoria @a-terfdom @femliberation @ethereal-blackgirl @pastathecreep @saltballsaltypants @mcdyke @humblekitten @uter-fist @genderiswar @radicallymadically @itsajungle0utthere @magna-mater @notcisjustwoman @butterbutch @houroftheantichristwolf @prayawaythestraight @alienspriviledge @dworkin-it @hannah-bee @victoriassecretion @radfemming @radfem-dork @femnms @elaenathedefiant @treadingonyourcape @unapologeticdyke @giant-lesfem @homereker @pr0tectwomen @cutedeadgal @caribbeanradfem @angrybrownwomxxn @s0wingseas0n @lesbian-lizards @lezmeya @thentheysaidburnher @bitter-badfem-harpy @clitterbag @ididnahht @radicallyhaley @nevertrustamanwho @antiporn-activist @spearmint-milkshake @sassysublimetastemaker @furiousfem @angrysapphist @celtyradfem @pro-uterus-agenda @badkittyradkitty @gallicinvasion @hmsindecision @allm0ther @radfemprincess @radicalfeministdragon @whyyoualwayssoradical @rad-feminism @2nd-wave @terfzilla @babyradfemh @antipornprincess @killgender @rad-femmes @radfemcoven @sokelyset @franklinlorde @lez0mbie @radfemtime @moonbeamlesbians @dykebeast @unapologeticalfeminist @no-concept-of-you 

Maybe I’m wrong here, but it seems to me that libfems seek to reduce stigma, not violence.

In the context of sex work, they seem to think the problem is the way people view sex workers instead of the fact that sex workers are more often than not victims of violence, and that’s not even taking into account the issue of sex trafficking. They think the source of the violence is stigma and “slut shaming” instead of an ingrained sense of entitlement to sex and the right to use women’s bodies.

That’s just an example, but you could apply this to lots of different subjects within libfem ideology- kink, gender, sex positivity, performative femininity, etc.. They seem to think that if we convince people not to judge us for being women we won’t face violence because of it. That judgment and stigma is just the top layer of female oppression. We need to get to the root of the violence: entitlement, dehumanization, and male superiority.

Listen your feminism should benefit all women. And looking at 2nd wave feminism it did. It benefited the women who said they didn’t need feminism. It benefited the women who told radical feminists that they would be happier with a husband, and should shut up. Even if these women can’t understand the movement, true feminism (based on liberation) will benefit them regardless. I can’t say the same about liberal feminism… I don’t agree with their stance because it WONT benefit even those who call themselves liberal feminists…they want legalized prostitution we know that will only harm women, they’re normalizing pornography and the incorporation of physical violence in the bedroom, we know the harmful effects of this. they want to destroy female exclusive places that were fought for and we already have examples of this going terribly, they’re making it impossible to even talk about sex based oppression. I can’t see a post about fgm without people equating it to circumcision. Liberal feminists believe there’s nothing to distinguish them from their oppressor other than fucking pronouns. How the fuck it is supposed to get better???

Feminism Has, Is, and Always Will Fail

Good, now i have your attention let me roll this back and make my point. So recently i ticked off a few people by trying to make this point in short but really it needs a little more time put into it. But lets roll back in time a little bit:

First Wave Feminism:

If i were around during the era 1st W Feminism was around i would tell you the following:

  1. Feminism is a movement fighting for women’s rights
  2. They are currently focused on basic civil rights, voting, property rights and fair wages
  3. Any one who supports this cause is a feminist

This is a movement with a recognizable and well defined goal. We know what they are doing and know who is involved. The cause is quantifiable.

Second Wave Feminism:

If i were around during the era 2nd W Feminism was around i would tell you the following:

  1. Feminism is a movement fighting for women’s rights
  2. They are currently focused on domestic safety, birth control and other rights to their body. It was also during this time the “Equal Pay Act” came into effect
  3. Any one who support this cause is a feminist

Third Wave Feminism:

I AM around today during what is most often known as modern or 3rd wave feminism and i wish i had a simpler answer:

  1. Feminism is a movement fighting for women’s rights, though im not sure which ones or how.
  2. They are currently focused on… Im not even sure. Some are still debating the debunked wage gap, others whine about man spreading, others want a 50/50 split of women in all positions of power.
  3. Any one who supports… Whatever this is… Is a feminist. Apart from sometimes you MUST be a women, sometimes you must be a biological woman, sometimes men can be feminists, sometimes men can only be allies. Some say that 3rd wave is for and by white women, others say its for every one including LGBT rights activism and all other social rights. Some are for equality while others are for women

Current feminism cannot succeed simply because there is no defined goal. We have radical, liberal, trans exclusionary, white, intersectional feminism to name but a few however i couldnt tell you what, specifically, they fight for. I can tell you that any one outside of the movement can see this lack of direction, the bickering and the hypocrisy. Ive seen Feminists tear down women and other feminists for differences in opinion more often than i’ve seen one raise a valid and provable point.

This is why im typically against “Feminism” not because of its core ideas historically but because it currently stands for nothing. Its a movement i simply couldnt support because it stands for nothing for all intents and purposes.

Without a unified direction, a movement isn’t a movement, Its a “Static” its a “dis-organisation”.

This has partially been in response to THIS POST and @marsinlibra @beawareidontcare and @frecklesurprise . The latter of whom was kind enough to actually debate the points. My apologies for leaving it so late to respond in full.

nytimes.com
Feminism’s A-List Attends Kate Millett’s Memorial in New York
Like so many rousing military celebrations, Kate Millett’s memorial service began with bagpipes.
By Penelope Green

“The veterans of second-wave feminism had turned out by the hundreds, foot soldiers and commanders alike, including Gloria Steinem and Letty Cottin Pogrebin, both of whom wore leather pants, revolutionary-style. (“We didn’t coordinate that,” Ms. Pogrebin said.) 

Ms. Millett died Sept. 6 in Paris, a week before her 83rd birthday, with Sophie Keir, her spouse and partner of 39 years, by her side. The memorial was held Thursday afternoon at the Fourth Universalist Society, a Unitarian church on Central Park West.

Ms. Millett was the Oxford-educated author of “Sexual Politics,” her doctoral thesis for Columbia University that became a global sensation when it was published in 1970. Its rigorous analysis of gender dynamics in literature and history revealed a deep-rooted pattern of male discrimination that pointed out women’s conditioning to their second-class status.

Ms. Millett’s final demonstration was the women’s march last January in New York City, Ms. Love said. She attended in her wheelchair, holding a sign with her name on it. The police opened the barricades for her, and the march’s organizers led her to the front of the line, where demonstrators approached Ms. Millett to pay their respects and give thanks. “Even the police knew who she was,” Ms. Love said. It was a fitting tribute to the woman who some have called the most famous feminist you’ve never heard of.”

Read the full piece here

R.I.P. Kate Millett! Thank you for your feminist insights, activism and inspiration.

  • 1st wave feminists: advocates for recognition of women's intelligence and basic human potential.
  • 2nd wave feminists: fighting for equal participation in the workforce, ending blatant sexism in the media.
  • 3rd wave feminists: trying to gain superiority over men, basically ending the equality previous feminists were fighting for.
Hands Off My Gun: Defeating the Plot to Disarm America

I’m especially amazed that feminists will preach countless tales advocating for the empowerment of women in almost all ways except for the one that matters most—protection of their physical safety. Throw a firearm into the equation, and modern-day feminists adopt the patriarchal prejudice represented by Colorado Democrats: Women suddenly become stupid, weak little creatures, unfit to carry a firearm” (Dana Loesch)

#2A

“Good night, Ai,” said the alien, and the other alien said, “Good night, Harth.”

A friend. What is a friend, in a world where any friend may be a lover at a new phase of the moon? Not I, locked in my virility; no friend to Therem Harth, or any other of his race. Neither man nor woman, neither and both, cyclic, lunar, metamorphosing under the hand’s touch, changelings in the human cradle, they were no flesh of mine, no friends; no love between us.

— 

The Left Hand of Darkness, Ursula K Le Guin (1969) 


I love this book. Considering it’s almost 50 years old, it manages to do some amazingly prescient things with gender fluidity and gender as a societal construct. It’s a melancholy story, because Meaningful Art is sad, but a hopeful one; and only gets more impressive when one remembers the casual transphobia of 2nd wave feminism (which would’ve been fomenting at the time). it’s also a story where none of the characters are white, though it’s more incidental than actively examined by the story.

It’s not perfect (the genderfluid society is asexual and without genitalia except for cycles of estrus, so while any person can present either set of genitalia, sexual combos are basically all hetero-presenting, for example), but it holds up astonishingly well. 

Oh, and the narrator is meant to sound like a bit of a patronizing dick here. Struggling with learned toxic masculinity is part of his arc. 

It is a Very Good Book is what I’m saying. 

I know I bitch about my S.O. on here a fair bit, and rest assured that I usually do talk to him as well about the stuff that is bothering me (in other words, I don’t just complain on the Internet and leave it at that), but he really is one of the Good Ones in lots of ways.

The trouble is with me, I think. I am just generally frustrated with the whole set up we have had since V was born. The whole me as stay-at-home Mom and him as sole provider thing. It’s the situation I dislike, more than anything.

All I can say is, I understand a little bit how lots of women felt in the 1950’s (and why 2nd wave feminism happened in the 60’s).

im actually screaming. this was written DURING the 2nd wave of feminism/women’s lib movement and it has aged So Well

also if you cant read it:

“The abortion movement is a good example of what happens when privileged people organize. Abortion is a reform measure. Its analysis is good when it says that women should seize control of their own bodies, but it patently ignores the contradiction that women will not have control of their own bodies if they keep on voluntarily giving them to men. Abortion, then, does not threaten male supremacy. It assumes that women are going to keep on fucking and breeding and makes it easier for some women to lick up to men.

Straight women tried to rally us all together under the “Sisterhood is groovy” banner to win abortions. Straight privileged women said that sex, class or race issues would be divisive and would keep us from winning. Then they proceeded to use us to win abortions that are totally irrelevant to Lesbians, can be used as genocide against Third World women, and are too expensive for poor women to afford. Oh, Sisterhood is so groovy.”

anonymous asked:

why are you so fucking offended at first and second wave feminism you thot? what's your crooked shit about "it never was for equality, it is female supremacy" i guess asking to be considered human and having basic human rights is too much for you. Only a weird gremlin like you would get offended at another group gaining some kinda freedom. Guess you want an obedient dumb cocksleeve as your "girlfriend" who will cook you horse shit. Delete yourself from existence, scrote.

1st and 2nd wave feminism had valid complaints, that’s for sure. The problem is that when you look at the situation it was always about gaining more rights but not necessarily equal responsibility. When you go all the way back to the suffragettes trying to get the right to vote it was made very clear that they didn’t want that right to come with the responsibility of having to sign up for the draft. It’s that kind of thinking that I take issue with.

!(All Things In Moderation)

In addition to authoritarians, I frequently find myself at odds with people that I’d personally describe as moderates or centrists. Where authoritarians are fearful and build power structures that are designed to marginalize certain people, moderates and centrists are a little harder to pin down. They don’t occur in tightly knit communities, but they’ve got some typical behaviors that identify them and might explain why I wind up objecting to their behavior so regularly.

First, the terms I’m using usually highlight their political attitudes, in contrast to the way that we could talk about someone’s moral or social perspective. This isn’t to say that politics is more important than everything else, but politics is the arena that a lot of our attitudes get tested in. Racists advocate for racist politics, authoritarians advocate for xenophobic politics, and so on. I’ll cut this point short by saying that y'all should just read on the topic of ‘the personal is political’, one of the elements of 2nd wave feminism that helped advance progressive theory in a relatively positive way by acknowledging that our politics ultimately derive from things that personally affect us that cannot be addressed with purely personal solutions.

Second, moderate or centrist refers to someone who tends to believe in middle-of-the-road politics. Regardless of the politics in question. Back when the US had left-wing and right-wing political attitudes, centrism sat somewhere in the middle. Now that US politics are firmly center-right to right-wing, centrists are still someone in the middle. Right of center-right, but not quite right-wing. If you’re scratching your head because it seems like that doesn’t make sense since it’s a political position that’s only defined by it’s relative position to other political attitudes, yeah, it doesn’t make a lot of sense. That’s because I believe that being a moderate is less about representing any actual political position, but rather the need to avoid politics and reduce the tension created by them.

It’s like a child who wants to play peacemaker because conflict is uncomfortable to them.

So you see moderates who do things like argue that we should let nazis speak and not challenge them, despite their personal belief that nazis are vile. Or people who argue that we can’t challenge the rich because then we might all lose our jobs. And I’m sure everyone has seen the people who aren’t right-wingers but for some reason think that antifa are a serious problem in modern politics.

If you’ve ever heard the quote by Desmond Tutu, “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor,” that’s the exact problem here. A moderate is choosing to support neutrality because they feel discomfort at the prospect of conflict. But these conflicts exist for good reason, because one group has chosen to oppress another. By refusing to engage with the injustice, by appealing to a need for neutrality and lack of tension, they’re unwittingly supporting the side of the oppressor.

It’s frustrating because it’s ultimately still an emotional response to a political environment, rather than a reasoned one, which means you probably aren’t going to get through to them. But I have hope sometimes, because people who are in the middle are sometimes there because they don’t know any better and because they’re somewhat fearful of making the wrong choice. That means that you can get through to them if you represent your cause with honor, dignity, and truth, because there’s a ring to what is true that you cannot match with dogmatic hatred and xenophobic rhetoric.

That’s one of the reasons I write to inform, rather than debate, despite recent deviations from that norm. I want to make sure that good information is out in the world trying to fight the bad. Both because people on my side of things might need the reinforcement, and because sometimes we’ll manage to find one of those moderates that just needed a little more education to light the fire in them and bring them over to the side of justice.

Yes, I know that the way I talk about these things is kinda overblown. I don’t really care. Justice is a good thing, perhaps one of the greatest of all things. And we don’t have justice unless we fight for it.

This is how I fight. As small as it is, this is what I can do.