obsessed with this. theres something so wrong with him.
They deserve an Emmy.
[id: three replies from tumblr user @magpiefrankie that read: (1) maybe im just an idiotic brit but i have never in my life heard parmesan pronounced like that. is that the proper pronunciation?? wow (2) google tells me no thats not the proper pronunciation nevermind, where does the 'j' sound come from im so intrigued (3) parmeJAAN /end id]
this reply sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole because i also pronounce parmesan with that j sound and had not thought about it before, but the word does have an s. but i was sure the change came from SOMEWHERE and the only other person who responded just basically said "have you ever met an american, we pronounce things wrong" which probably should not be applied to regional linguistic differences which i what i suspected this was. i had to know why it's different.
trying to get a foot in the door was kind of annoying because almost everything immediately available was just trying to tell you which one was correct without explaining why, so i ignored articles & buzzfeed listicles for the most part. i'm also not a linguist so i did a cursory search on some academic databases but didn't really have a handle on what keywords to use to find what i was looking for, so i came up empty there
this how to pronounce parmesan video was where i started and probably what anyone curious has also seen. this says the 's' is the correct way but also that the word comes from the italian "parmigiano" which does have that soft g or j sound [i do not know the phonetic alphabet. im so sorry]. the word moves to french and gets the s, and then to english where we [supposedly] keep the s. tracks for european english speakers, but i wondered if maybe english speakers in north america had retained that soft g sound from italian somehow, even though parmesan was anglicized already.
next i found a blog (?) called nachomamasgrilledcheese.com, which i think might be entirely AI generated. there is a minute chance it is just one guy who really likes parmesan cheese, but some of the articles were a little too non-sequitur, and the explanations too circular. every post is by someone named 'jack gloop', but when you click on the profile that says his name is david mcbride and his hobby is 'farmer'. nothing comes up when you reverse image search the profile picture. probably have a vpn if you go to this website i'm a little worried about their privacy policy and cookie agreements in retrospect now BUT ANYWAY i bring it up bc that data doesnt come from nowhere, and that blog kept mentioning 1) influences from italian immigrants and 2) regulations surrounding legally calling a cheese "parmigiano-reggiano" vs "parmesan".
also i spent too long on a few weird unsourced fake websites to not have a paragraph. i had a similar experience on profoundtips.com, where an article claimed it was influence from italian-american immigrants, and was written by Author, whose profile url was a keysmash and redirected to the home page when you clicked it. it was eerie in a way. like if you went to visit someone and they were a cardboard cutout in a show home.
moving back to real people, there's a few stackexchange posts about the topic. this one on the pronunciation of parmesan is mostly people talking about how to pronounce it obvs, but there's one comment by Doug Warren that reads: 'Interestingly, what we call "Parmesan" here in the United States--the powdered cheesy substance in a cylinder--cannot legally be called that in Europe, because it falls afoul of "protected designation of origin" laws, which say that if it's not from Parma, it's not legally "Parmesan".'
this isn't quite what we're looking for, but the legality of the word 'parmesan' crops up a lot, and there's a ton of case law about it. to my understanding this legal difference is not based on the pronunciation of the word parmesan itself, just whether you call it that or some variation of parmigiano-reggiano. this is also what wikipedia is talking about in the "uses of the name" section. and what's being discussed in this insider article. very interesting detour, but not answering our question.
ultimately i think the mosty trustworthy source is people in this quora thread, who say it was italian immigrants to america keeping the soft g from italian. in particular here's Roger Hughes, who i do believe is a real person, and who has listed the credential of a PhD in linguistics:
The standard Italian adjective for the city and province of Parma is “parmigiano”, which is used to refer to the cheese across Italy, except in Reggio Emilia where they'll get cross that you left them out because they make it too. The cheese came to the attention of the mainstream Anglophone culinary world via French, because French cuisine was socially dominant all over the western world for ages. In the mid 19th century French took its name for the cheese, parmesan, from the local dialect word rather than from the standard Italian (modern standardised Italian only really goes back to the 1870s), the modern form of which is “pramzàn". In the USA, 20th century Italian immigrants, who mainly came from the other end of the country from Parma and spoke entirely different dialects, were familiar with parmigiano under that name, encountered it already circulating under the Anglo-French name, and some of them and their descendants adopted a kind of hybrid pronunciation.
so there you have it! neither pronunciation is really 'incorrect'; just different linguistic influences. thank you for coming on this journey to me <3
hey im obsessed with this. thank you











