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Plaidder On Tumblr

@plaidadder / plaidadder.tumblr.com

She/her. Cis, queer, American, curmudgeonly. I was born the year of the moon landing. I have many fandoms: Sherlock Holmes (Granada Holmes, ACD Canon Sherlock Holmes, Sherlock until it jumped the shark), Good Omens, X-Files, Doctor Who, Star Trek (Original Series) Broadchurch,The Great British Baking Show, The Good Place, Brooklyn 99, Hamilton, and many more. Since 2016 I have kept up an intermittent commentary on American politics, tagged as #the current catastrophe.
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[Image Description: A screenshot of a series of tweets from C.W. Howell (@cwhowell123) Tweet 1: So I followed @GaryMarcus' suggestion and had my undergrad class use chatGPT for a critical assignment. I had them all generate an essay using a prompt I gave them, and then their job was to "grade" it -- look for hallucinated info and critique its analysis. *All 63* essays had Tweet 2: hallucinated information. Fake quotes, fake sources, or real sources misunderstood and mischaracterized. Every single assignment. I was stunned -- I figured the rate would be high, but not that high.

Tweet 3: The biggest takeaway from this was that the students all learned that it isn't fully reliable. Before doing it, many of them were under the impression that it was always right. Their feedback largely focused on how shocked they were that it could mislead them. Probably 50% of them

Tweet 4: were unaware that it could do this. All of them expressed fears and concerns about mental atrophy and the possibility of misinformation/fake news. One student was worried that their neural pathways formed from critical thinking would start to degrade or weaken. One other student

Tweet 5: opined that AI both knew more than us but is dumber than we are since it cannot think critically. She wrote, "I'm not worried about AI getting to where we are now. I'm much more worried about the possibility of of us reverting to where AI is."]

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OK, I'm going to try to ask this in the nicest possible way, because clearly I am having an XKCD 2501 moment (https://m.xkcd.com/2501/) and I have massively over-estimated general understanding of what chatGPT does. So I need to correct my biased viewpoint, and for that I need people to explain to me. So.

People who were under the impression that chatGPT is always right, that it's fully reliable ... or who were under the impression that out of 63 essays, you'd expect to get unreliable information in much fewer than 63 cases ... or who were thinking that this unreliability can be easily circumvented by asking chatGPT if its output is accurate ... basically, anyone who is surprised by this thread

this is a genuine and not-condescending question: Why? What experiences or sources or reasoning led you to think that? What is it about chatGPT, or about the way people are talking about chatGPT, that makes you trust it so much more than you would trust your phone's autocorrect function?

Because my industry is clearly not doing it's damn job, and I need to understand where the disconnect is. What are we forgetting to explain, or are explaining poorly, or are using terrible terminology, or whatever it is we're screwing up, that left you with the impression you have/had about this technology?

i think the fact that these algorithms (all of them, whatever their source or purpose) are commonly called "artificial intelligence", specifically (mis)using the word "intelligence".

i'm thinking back to when computers were being used for calculations, ie to take large quantities of data and run them through the multi-variable equations to produce things like trajectories, or weather maps, even code breaking as in ww2. nobody called it "intelligence", it was just doing complex calculations so much faster than any human ever could, that it produced useful results within useful time frames.

now the computers are bigger and faster, but they are still doing the same basic thing, only chewing on millions or billions of pages of language (used without the consent or permission or even knowledge of the original writers, which is often glossed over if it's even mentioned), and it's being called "intelligence" which it is NOT, but that dresses it up in a way than makes it seem more plausible. in fact it is increasingly regressive and lacking in real insight.

I think the moment I finally actually *got* that AI is not actually intelligent was the 2017 Tumblr purge. I mean yes, I always intellectually understood that computers aren't sentient and software can't think. But I think it's hard for us to understand that computers' "brains" work in ways completely different from ours until you watch an AI program identify a loaf of bread as porn.

I watched all the ridiculous misfires and somehow that got it through to me: the AI doesn't 'know' anything. It can analyze and image and find images that are roughly analogous but it doesn't have that thing humans have where you can look at a collection of like 4 distinctive features and go oh, yeah, that's a bunny. Or a sheep, or a train, or whatever. The AI just finds patterns of pixels that are similar to other patterns. One pattern could make a photorealistic portrait of a bunch of onions and the other pattern could be a real photo of a bag of actual severed heads, and the AI would not differentiate between them because it has no way to perceive the things about an image that matter to human beings. It doesn't know what's a horrifying image and what's a soothing one and more to the point, it cannot be taught to know the difference because it, as a machine, is utterly indifferent to human wants, needs, or welfare.

That insight was really chilling to me. All these people talk about AI harming humanity as if that's something still to come in the future. No, friends, the robot revolution has happened already. Our social networks have been scaled up to the point that humans can't manage them effectively, so we have the machines do it. We outsource more and more to these algorithms and now the machines are in charge. Which is a problem because the machines don't actually *know* anything and can't be enabled to care about the damage they do.

So it's the same with ChatGPT now. Surely something able to simulate speech at this level must know what it's talking about? No. Actually it can very much not 'know' anything about language and still simulate conversation well enough to pass the Turing test. A human wouldn't be able to speak a language without knowing a fucking thing about what it means, but that is actually what ChatGPT and all its ilk do. They can say anything but they KNOW nothing, precisely because they are machines. A human couldn't do what ChatGPT does; our brains can't use that amount of data. But ChatGPT also can't do what we do, which is know what words actually mean and what their consequences might be.

Reading Les Miserables Out Loud: L'Affaire Champmathieu's Double Trouble

At long last, we have worked out way through L'Affaire Champmathieu. Devotees of the musical will remember L'Affaire Champathieu as an episode covered by a fairly short song titled "Who Am I." Inspector Javert, who is running the police in M sur M, has for quite some time had a suspicion that Mayor Madeleine might really be a convict named Jean Valjean. Then Javert learns that a different man who goes by the name of Champmathieu and was picked up for among other things stealing apples from an orchard has been positively identified as Jean Valjean. Javert is 100% certain that this Champmathieu really is Jean Valjean, which means of course that he was quite wrong to suspect Mayor Madeleine, which according to Javert's Ethical Code means he has to go to Mayor Madeleine, explain his suspicions, explain why he was wrong, and tell Mayor Madeleine that he needs to be fired for this ghastly mistake. But of course Mayor Madeleine actually is Jean Valjean, and now knows that some other poor sap is about to be sent back to prison for life on his behalf. What to do? Let the name Jean Valjean stick to Champathieu and go die in the galleys with him, thus leaving him in the clear forever? Or go down to the court where Champmathieu is being tried, establish that he's Jean Valjean, save Champmathieu, and accept the (extremely severe) consequences?

So, behind the cut tag, I have some thoughts about what it means that this part of the story is told in such detail and from so many different angles and therefore takes...so, so, so much longer.

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“Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.”

“Over time, mistakes in generated data compound and ultimately force models that learn from generated data to misperceive reality even further,” wrote one of the paper’s leading authors, Ilia Shumailov, in an email to VentureBeat. “We were surprised to observe how quickly model collapse happens: Models can rapidly forget most of the original data from which they initially learned.”

I've Just Discovered the Concept of "Mortality Salience"

Hi everyone,

Through a very circuitous route, I have come across an article published by Florette Cohen and Sheldon Solomon in Current Directions in Psychological Science, Vol. 20, No. 5 (OCTOBER 2011) entitled "The Politics of Mortal Terror," which has introduced me to a new-to-me concept which is possibly not relevant to what I'm actually researching but which I think can explain much about our current moment, which is: mortality salience.

Briefly, "mortality salience" is an increased awareness of one's own mortality, which can be generated by a lot of things. Here are the first two paragraphs of Cohen and Solomon's article, which define the concept and hypothesize its political consequences:

"Terror-management theory, derived from work by Ernest Becker (1973, 1975), starts with the Darwinian assumption that humans share with all forms of life a biological predispo sition toward self-preservation in the service of survival and reproduction. However, because of their capacity for symbolization and self-consciousness, humans are uniquely aware of the inevitability of death and their ever-present vulnerability, which creates the potential for paralyzing terror that is managed through adherence to cultural worldviews: humanly constructed conceptions of reality shared by individuals in a group. Cultural worldviews minimize death anxiety by imbuing the world with order, meaning, and permanence and by providing a set of standards of behavior that, if satisfied, confer self-esteem and the promise of symbolic and/or literal immortality.

Cultural worldviews are ultimately "shared fictions," in that they are unlikely to be literally true and are therefore generally sustained simply by social consensus. However, encountering people of different cultures may diminish confidence in one's own belief by presenting alternative conceptions of reality, undermining their terror-assuaging function. People are consequently generally uncomfortable around, and hostile toward, those who are different. Additionally, because no symbolic cultural construction can overcome the physical reality of death, residual anxiety is unconsciously projected onto other group(s) of individuals who are designated as evil incarnate. People typically respond to others who hold different beliefs by berating them, trying to convert them to one's own beliefs, or annihilating them to demonstrate the superiority of their own worldviews." (316-317)

So this presumes that humans always have *some* knowledge of their own mortality, but that certain events, ranging from state terror to, let's say, plague, can increase it sharply--and that this heightened "death anxiety" can significantly increase intolerance for other world views (apart from one's own).

Haven't read the article, but I'm interested in the concept. Because, of course, the recent pandemic increased EVERYONE's mortality salience, everywhere. But before that...there are so many other things, like the opioid epidemic, the general massive failures of the American health care system, increasingly pervasive and omnipresent gun violence, climate change, etc. We have SO MUCH mortality salience now. Could that explain some of the current...you know...insanity? I don't know. I haven't read the rest of the article yet.

Good Omens Summer Reruns

So, I have not had time to produce any new Good Omens content during the countdown to Good Omens 2. However, in the spirit of summer reruns--a thing I am just realizing now most people under 30 have no reference for--here are some links to my existing Good Omens content for your anticipatory enjoyment.

FICTION

This series includes all two and a half of my Good Omens fics:

There Is Only One Nightingale (Aziraphale & Crowley, or Aziraphale/Crowley, whichever you prefer, 2147 words)

Due to an Incident aboard Noah's Ark, a nightingale is left without its mate. Aziraphale does a little unauthorized miracle, and changes the course of literary history.

Laissez-Faire: A Debacle in Three Conversations. (Aziraphale & Crowley, or Aziraphale/Crowley, whichever you prefer; also Gabriel; 9.447 words)

It's November, 1847. There's famine in Ireland, and Crowley's been ordered there to buy some souls for Satan. Per the Arrangement, and due to Crowley's little misunderstanding with St. Patrick, Aziraphale winds up going instead.

Things do not go according to plan.

This debacle is almost the end of the Arrangement. But it's also almost the beginning of...something else.

The Good Omens Nativity: A Very Short Christmas Pageant (Aziraphale and Gabriel with a cameo appearance by Crowley)

What if Aziraphale was involved in the Nativity, the way Crowley got dragged into the Antichrist’s birth, because he was Heaven’s agent in the field? And what if, like the birth of the Adversary, it was…kind of a shitshow?

META

The Good Omens Meta nobody asked for. 4 essays now; maybe more to come! Who knows?

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Hi,

It’s you friendly neighbor fanfic author here. In the light of this apparent new trend of people feeding unfinished fics to AI to get an “ending,” and some people even talking about “blanket permissions,” let me just say this:

I EXPLICITLY FORBID ANYONE TO FEED MY FICS TO AI. DUDE, THAT IS ABOUT THE LEAST RESPECTFUL THING YOU CAN DO. IF YOU DO IT, SHALL YOU BE EXCOMMUNICATED FROM YOUR FANDOM AND WALK ON LEGOS BAREFOOT TILL THE END OF DAYS.

That is my anti-permission.

Thank you for your attention.

Yeah, I do not have any WIPs live at the moment, but...FUCK. NO.

You think ChatbotGPT knows how this fic ends any better than you do? Nobody knows what the ending of an unfinished story is. You're gonna let some brainless automatic text predictor make some shit up and then just accept that as the ending? I do not understand this.

I see that you read books like Les Miserables, Moby Dick, and The Count of Monte Cristo and am curious to know if you have any advice for reading long classic texts with slower pacing and older language? There are many books like these that I’d love to read since I’ve no doubt they became classics for a reason, but their length and density (especially when combined with my admittedly short attention span) feel like an intimidating barrier. Do you have any particular methods you use when reading these kinds of books?

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This is an excellent question, and as there is no one right answer, I invite others to weigh in.

In some ways I'm the wrong person to ask, because to me it came naturally. I was a big reader as a child, and since I was born the year of the moon landing, when I reached adolescence, books were still largely the only game in town when it came to narrative. I mean, there were movies, which you had to go out and see in theaters unless you were good enough at handling your unnecessarily complicated VCR system to tape them from TV. And of course there was TV, but...have you ever watched 80s TV? It was...yes, I'm going to say 100% awful. I mean find me a 1980s TV show you would gladly watch again today. Computer games were (depending on whether you lived through this era) either laughably or adorably simple--and many of the ones I played the most, which were interactive fiction games, worked more or less like novels: you read a block of text, you made a decision, you got another block of text.

But that world is gone! So here are some suggestions for reading long nineteenth century novels in the 21st century.

This got long. The TL:dr here is: Unlock the sensory and imaginative pleasures available from the Very Long Book, and they will compensate for the frustration occasioned by unfamiliar vocabulary and complicated sentence structure.

So, I've had some thoughts about more granular tips for reading longer, slower-paced books with unfamiliar vocabulary.

I see that you read books like Les Miserables, Moby Dick, and The Count of Monte Cristo and am curious to know if you have any advice for reading long classic texts with slower pacing and older language? There are many books like these that I’d love to read since I’ve no doubt they became classics for a reason, but their length and density (especially when combined with my admittedly short attention span) feel like an intimidating barrier. Do you have any particular methods you use when reading these kinds of books?

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This is an excellent question, and as there is no one right answer, I invite others to weigh in.

In some ways I'm the wrong person to ask, because to me it came naturally. I was a big reader as a child, and since I was born the year of the moon landing, when I reached adolescence, books were still largely the only game in town when it came to narrative. I mean, there were movies, which you had to go out and see in theaters unless you were good enough at handling your unnecessarily complicated VCR system to tape them from TV. And of course there was TV, but...have you ever watched 80s TV? It was...yes, I'm going to say 100% awful. I mean find me a 1980s TV show you would gladly watch again today. Computer games were (depending on whether you lived through this era) either laughably or adorably simple--and many of the ones I played the most, which were interactive fiction games, worked more or less like novels: you read a block of text, you made a decision, you got another block of text.

But that world is gone! So here are some suggestions for reading long nineteenth century novels in the 21st century.

This got long. The TL:dr here is: Unlock the sensory and imaginative pleasures available from the Very Long Book, and they will compensate for the frustration occasioned by unfamiliar vocabulary and complicated sentence structure.

This isn't much of a prompt but I would love to hear any and all x-files thoughts, including all the CC negativity you would like!

(I am also always up for moffat bashing if that sounds more appealing)

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Oh man. Nobody has time for ALL my X-Files thoughts. Many are collected here:

The X-Files Meta (a series of episode reviews written during a rewatch of all nine luscious seasons of it back in 2014; also includes reviews of Seasons 10 & 11)

But, you can also find a lot of stuff that's *not* collected there by going through a very special tag I wound up having to create:

#chris carter has lost his mind

I was in my 20s when The X-Files started airing. I watched up through Season 7 as it aired. Then I quit. I didn't watch seasons 8 or 9 until 2014.

So I watched this show pre-streaming, pre-most-forms-of-social-media, almost but not quite pre-internet. And I was really into it. I named two cats after Mulder and Scully. Mrs. P and I spent entire summers speculating about how certain cliffhangers would be resolved. We were really hooked.

But a lot of that interest was based on an assumption that turned out not to be true, which was that Chris Carter actually had an overall plan in mind and was building an actual plot which would eventually be revealed. I think it's clear now that he never really did. The show mythology was always, if we're being charitable, mysterious and obscure; and, if we're not being charitable, vague and incoherent.

But even before it got to that point--I think around Season 5--I started to have the suspicion that the show was a lot better and smarter than its showrunner. I think it was around this time that I first formulated the Accidental Theory of Good Television. The TL:DR on that one is: Good television does not happen on purpose. It is always an accident, which market forces will sooner or later correct. At any rate, The X-Files to me was a prime example of how a showrunner could create a hit without actually understanding why or how he did it. There was a lot I think he never understood about what drew people to the show.

The revival series were sad, for me, in that they proved to me that the show in fact had never really been what I thought it was. Chris Carter was not deep; he was a bad writer whose limitations had been concealed for a long time by the show's premise and by the strong group of writers he gathered around him. Between season 9 and Seasons 10 & 11 Carter had learned absolutely nothing, and in fact his reactionary paranoia had deepend to the point where it started to intersect with QAnon.

So bottom line: I think Carter never really knew what he had with The X-Files. He never really understood why most of us were watching the show. His ideas about Scully and about women and reproduction are retrograde to the point of absurdity. He got lucky with casting and he got lucky with the writers' room and that's what enabled me to be enthralled by this show for years. Apart from that, what keeps me interested in it really is the fandom. I've met some fine people here in the X-Files fandom and I really enjoy talking about the show.

It's a long boring task day.

Ask me things and I will answer. I sorely need the motivational assistance today.

For those who recently decided to follow me: this is a multifandom and kind of multieverything blog, but here's a short list of topics about which I always have Opinions to Share.

FANDOMS (listed roughly in the order in which I got into them)

Sherlock Holmes (ACD canon, Granada, Sherlock but you better be prepared for Moffat negativity)

Star Trek (first and foremost ST:TOS; also TNG and DS9. Ran out of steam midway through Voyager. Have not seen any Trek series since)

X-Files (again, be prepared for Chris Carter negativity)

Doctor Who (doctors Nine through Thirteen but haven't done Thirteen's last season yet don't tell me anything about it)

Cabin Pressure, The Good Place, Brooklyn 99, Broadchurch, Extraordinary Attorney Woo, Great British Baking Show, Top Chef, Blown Away, Repair Shop, other shows I'm probably foregetting

Big Fat Nineteenth Century Novels (Les Miserables, The Count of Monte Cristo, The Moonstone, Jane Eyre, Moby Dick, Lady Audley's Secret, and others)

Drama & Theater (mostly English-language with some French and the occasional German)

And then there's:

  • American politics
  • LGBTQ+ stuff
  • writing
  • AI Will Destroy Us All But Not By 'Going Rogue' Or Whatever
  • Being Old

Ask away!

Yes, it's another long boring task day! I have so many long boring task days!

The long boring task continues! Ask more things!

You've reviewed every episode of ST:TOS, but what do you think of the movies? Would you have any interest in reviewing and/or writing meta on them, too? Do you have any off-the-cuff thoughts about any or all of them?

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What do I think of the movies.

To be honest, I haven't seen all of them, and I'm not sure at this point that I ever will. I've seen II, III, IV, VI, and I made it through the first TNG-based movie and two of the reboot movies but...I think I just got exhausted after a while. I don't have the same setup I had before where I could watch the shows while exercising, and with the amount of time I have in my life I feel less inclined to spend it watching movies I don't think I'm going to like.

I mean, I'm glad they made Wrath of Khan. I enjoyed Search for Spock and the one with the whales. By Undiscovered Country I think I was just tired, and Kirk's death in the TNG one was...underwhelming. But the movies did not have the same hold on me that the show did. Maybe I am too old.

Hi, and hope you're doing well. How do you incorporate these asks into your motivational structure? I've not made much progress on goals I set for myself, including...working through feelings of discouragement from not making much progress so that I can go forth and chip away at my goals! :'D Thank you, and happy boring task day!

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I put out the ask, then I do some task. When I can do no more task, I check the ask box to find out what people have sent me; and then I take a little break to answer the ask. Having done so, I go back to task. And so on.

Basically I use answering the ask as a little reward for myself for getting me through the task. It's easier for me to work on the task knowing I can take a little break at some point to check my mailbox for goodies.

Of course sometimes i get too into answering the ask and it wastes more time than is optimal. But no system is perfect.

Moby Dick! Do you think it would ever be possible to adapt it in any way that could do it justice? If so, how? Opera, miniseries, stop motion animation, experimental theater production, or what? Who would you cast in it? What bits would you leave out and what bits would you be absolutely sure to leave in? (If you leave out A Squeeze of the Hand, I warn you gravely that I will be personally forced to boycott it. But I can't imagine you'd ever do that to us.)

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Well, the answer to your first question is clearly "no." This novel is unadaptable. Many have tried. But even I am not crazy enough to attempt it. I mean there is a 1956 film adaptation of it written by Ray Bradbury of all people with Gregory Peck as Captain Ahab and Orson Welles as Father Mapple and even with all that talent I have never watched it because you just KNOW it was a terrible movie.

In 2019 someone adapted it as a musical. It was actually performed. It then, apparently, sank without trace. There is in fact a song titled "A Squeeze of the Hand."

I don't think you could successfully transform Moby Dick into performance without turning it into something entirely different. There's an outfit in Chicago called Manual Cinema that does sort of live filmmaking with puppets and whatnot; I would go see their adaptation of it if it existed.

It's a long boring task day.

Ask me things and I will answer. I sorely need the motivational assistance today.

For those who recently decided to follow me: this is a multifandom and kind of multieverything blog, but here's a short list of topics about which I always have Opinions to Share.

FANDOMS (listed roughly in the order in which I got into them)

Sherlock Holmes (ACD canon, Granada, Sherlock but you better be prepared for Moffat negativity)

Star Trek (first and foremost ST:TOS; also TNG and DS9. Ran out of steam midway through Voyager. Have not seen any Trek series since)

X-Files (again, be prepared for Chris Carter negativity)

Doctor Who (doctors Nine through Thirteen but haven't done Thirteen's last season yet don't tell me anything about it)

Cabin Pressure, The Good Place, Brooklyn 99, Broadchurch, Extraordinary Attorney Woo, Great British Baking Show, Top Chef, Blown Away, Repair Shop, other shows I'm probably foregetting

Big Fat Nineteenth Century Novels (Les Miserables, The Count of Monte Cristo, The Moonstone, Jane Eyre, Moby Dick, Lady Audley's Secret, and others)

Drama & Theater (mostly English-language with some French and the occasional German)

And then there's:

  • American politics
  • LGBTQ+ stuff
  • writing
  • AI Will Destroy Us All But Not By 'Going Rogue' Or Whatever
  • Being Old

Ask away!

Yes, it's another long boring task day! I have so many long boring task days!

Good Place ask! (Minor spoilers, I guess?) I've heard some people say that they were annoyed by the handling of the Eleanor/Tahani flirtation vibe and what it might have said about the sexuality of either character. Did you like it or dislike it? Did you think the show would have benefited by being more overtly queer, or was that tangential to your enjoyment of it? What did you think of the gender implications of Janet being Not A Girl™ and what that said about her relationship with Jason?

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So, the Eleanor/Tahani thing: I can take it or leave it. It was funny, but I saw zero evidence of any actual chemistry between them, and Kristen Bell's delivery of those lines always seemed forced to me. Then again, for a long time I saw no evidence of chemistry between Eleanor and Chidi either. Like, love, but not a lot of chemistry. Maybe this has to do with Kristen Bell as an actress and chemistry not being her wheelhouse. At any rate, I don't think that was an attempt at Representation or whatever. I think it was something the writers thought was funny, but which for whatever reason Bell and Al-Jamil never really pulled off. As for my headcanons about the gender/orientation of either character, I think Tahani will accept the adoration of anyone of any gender, but is powerfully oriented toward men. I think Eleanor has never had a close enough relationship with another woman to find out whether she has any bi potential, but she also seems pretty strongly oriented (from a physical standpoint) toward men.

Janet's being Not A Girl having gender implications: Since Janet is in theory just a very sophisticated machine--an artificial intelligence that actually is intelligent--Janet wouldn't have a gender any more than Alexa does. Like Alexa's, Janet's gender presentation is quite literally a construct; it's not an expression of Janet's essence, it's an interface designed and built specifically for facilitating Janet's interaction with humans.

But with film, theater, and TV, there's never just one gender story being told, and that's especially true for The Good Place, where we're often told that what we're seeing (and what the in-world human characters are perceiving) is not what is actually real (this is most vividly demonstrated by the IHOP sequence) and that everything they're interacting with is a concept (like the puppy that gets kicked into the sun). In theory, once you die, you are essentially transferred to a massive virtual reality, where the angels/demons in charge create a simulation which feels much like the world you knew before death, but which is instantly customizable and includes possibilities that actual corporeal embodiment would rule out. I mean basically the Neighborhood is what Mark Zuckerberg wanted Meta to be. So, we're told by the dialogue that Janet is neither girl nor woman nor human nor indeed an organic lifeform; but Janet is played by a human actor and she always presents as a woman. So each of us gets to figure out what we do with all that information.

Anyway, my point is: What is gender in the absence of embodiment? This question is raised explicitly with Janet because it's clear that her humanoid form, which not only always presents as female but always presents identically within realms (all Good Place Janets look and dress identically; so do all Bad Place and Neutral Janets), is basically a skin. But in theory, this is true for all the Good Place characters, except when they are actually alive and on earth.

So anyway. Short answer, if you want to read Janet as nonbinary, there's plenty of room for that; but once you open that can, a lot of other worms come out.

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Ah, I missed this question:

"Did you think the show would have benefited by being more overtly queer, or was that tangential to your enjoyment of it?"

It's the ask that keeps on giving!

I didn't really care that much about the state of queerness in The Good Place. The show seemed to me very much not interested in exploring that beyond showing that queer people exist and that sexual orientation itself has no bearing on whether you get to the Good Place or not. (You can lose points if you're a man who tells women to smile, but we don't see anyone losing points for being a man who has consensual sex with another man.) These are basic moves you have to make in order to create a baseline comfort level for liberal viewers, and I don't see them as especially important to the show.

But not every show has to be about that. I liked the Good Place because it was really well written, really funny, and also really emotionally involving, with the added bonus of exploring a question I really care about, which is how to lead an ethical life in this @#$! world. It was unpredictable--which most TV shows are not, for me--and it was weird. That, for me, made up for it being pretty straight.

Good Place ask! (Minor spoilers, I guess?) I've heard some people say that they were annoyed by the handling of the Eleanor/Tahani flirtation vibe and what it might have said about the sexuality of either character. Did you like it or dislike it? Did you think the show would have benefited by being more overtly queer, or was that tangential to your enjoyment of it? What did you think of the gender implications of Janet being Not A Girl™ and what that said about her relationship with Jason?

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So, the Eleanor/Tahani thing: I can take it or leave it. It was funny, but I saw zero evidence of any actual chemistry between them, and Kristen Bell's delivery of those lines always seemed forced to me. Then again, for a long time I saw no evidence of chemistry between Eleanor and Chidi either. Like, love, but not a lot of chemistry. Maybe this has to do with Kristen Bell as an actress and chemistry not being her wheelhouse. At any rate, I don't think that was an attempt at Representation or whatever. I think it was something the writers thought was funny, but which for whatever reason Bell and Al-Jamil never really pulled off. As for my headcanons about the gender/orientation of either character, I think Tahani will accept the adoration of anyone of any gender, but is powerfully oriented toward men. I think Eleanor has never had a close enough relationship with another woman to find out whether she has any bi potential, but she also seems pretty strongly oriented (from a physical standpoint) toward men.

Janet's being Not A Girl having gender implications: Since Janet is in theory just a very sophisticated machine--an artificial intelligence that actually is intelligent--Janet wouldn't have a gender any more than Alexa does. Like Alexa's, Janet's gender presentation is quite literally a construct; it's not an expression of Janet's essence, it's an interface designed and built specifically for facilitating Janet's interaction with humans.

But with film, theater, and TV, there's never just one gender story being told, and that's especially true for The Good Place, where we're often told that what we're seeing (and what the in-world human characters are perceiving) is not what is actually real (this is most vividly demonstrated by the IHOP sequence) and that everything they're interacting with is a concept (like the puppy that gets kicked into the sun). In theory, once you die, you are essentially transferred to a massive virtual reality, where the angels/demons in charge create a simulation which feels much like the world you knew before death, but which is instantly customizable and includes possibilities that actual corporeal embodiment would rule out. I mean basically the Neighborhood is what Mark Zuckerberg wanted Meta to be. So, we're told by the dialogue that Janet is neither girl nor woman nor human nor indeed an organic lifeform; but Janet is played by a human actor and she always presents as a woman. So each of us gets to figure out what we do with all that information.

Anyway, my point is: What is gender in the absence of embodiment? This question is raised explicitly with Janet because it's clear that her humanoid form, which not only always presents as female but always presents identically within realms (all Good Place Janets look and dress identically; so do all Bad Place and Neutral Janets), is basically a skin. But in theory, this is true for all the Good Place characters, except when they are actually alive and on earth.

So anyway. Short answer, if you want to read Janet as nonbinary, there's plenty of room for that; but once you open that can, a lot of other worms come out.

It's a long boring task day.

Ask me things and I will answer. I sorely need the motivational assistance today.

For those who recently decided to follow me: this is a multifandom and kind of multieverything blog, but here's a short list of topics about which I always have Opinions to Share.

FANDOMS (listed roughly in the order in which I got into them)

Sherlock Holmes (ACD canon, Granada, Sherlock but you better be prepared for Moffat negativity)

Star Trek (first and foremost ST:TOS; also TNG and DS9. Ran out of steam midway through Voyager. Have not seen any Trek series since)

X-Files (again, be prepared for Chris Carter negativity)

Doctor Who (doctors Nine through Thirteen but haven't done Thirteen's last season yet don't tell me anything about it)

Cabin Pressure, The Good Place, Brooklyn 99, Broadchurch, Extraordinary Attorney Woo, Great British Baking Show, Top Chef, Blown Away, Repair Shop, other shows I'm probably foregetting

Big Fat Nineteenth Century Novels (Les Miserables, The Count of Monte Cristo, The Moonstone, Jane Eyre, Moby Dick, Lady Audley's Secret, and others)

Drama & Theater (mostly English-language with some French and the occasional German)

And then there's:

  • American politics
  • LGBTQ+ stuff
  • writing
  • AI Will Destroy Us All But Not By 'Going Rogue' Or Whatever
  • Being Old

Ask away!