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MINNU

@minnu1903

INFJ-T| Shadowfam| Type 6 | I just love books okay| and studying | Find me crying about The Raven Cycle forever|

Gansey’s (and everyone’s, I guess, though Gansey is the one who really cares) lack of concern about the Pig being wrecked after finding out Ronan had made him a new one always confused me a little bit. Maybe it depends on your mindset, but I guess I always just felt even if this new car has all the same quirks as the Pig, it’s still a different car. Even with an indistinguishable copy, the Pig was still wrecked. You can never get that car back.

But I don’t know, I guess this “replica = the same” mindset is one that the author probably has, because all of the characters seem to share it, because honestly I can’t think of another reason why there’s such a lack of concern about the fact that Gansey didn’t come back to life because his soul was returned to his body by Cabeswater or something. I can’t think of another reason why no one seemed to care that Gansey was remade by Cabeswater, that to the best of our knowledge, Gansey still died that way and his friends never really got him back, just a copy with all the quirks and mannerisms that had made him Gansey, so they never had to mourn the loss they still experienced.

that bolded is literally the only way I ever perceived the ending. I assumed that stiefvater intended for it to be read that way and I’d actually never considered that some people wouldn’t see it that way until reading this post.

it is tragic, but imo the gansey ‘copy’ is the real gansey that we’ve been seeing the POV of throughout the series, because that’s been him ever since he died the first time.

…the thing with gansey not minding the pig being a copy did always sit a little weirdly with me, though–or at least the fact that his feelings about it were never explored at all.

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Pretty sure @scribblingface is 100% on there.  We are given a number of clues in TRK that Gansey’s history is all a loop.

Yes!! I got an anon about something like this too and it had never occurred to me before but in hindsight that probably seems like the way we were intended to interpret it. I’m relieved tbh lol time is a circle and Gansey is alive!!!

idk like! I guess it depends on what parts about the Cabeswater remaking Gansey thing don’t sit well with you in particular. For me, I guess I was relieved because it means the Gansey that we fell in love with through the books is still alive and well at the end of the series. (Also, if it helps, I like the way this ask puts it quite a bit)

Okay this response gets long and this is already a long post so the rest will go below the cut

There’s a question with a lot the characters, I think, about whether they are essentially “real”. I can’t remember in what book, but I know Ronan wonders about this in terms of himself- half a dream and half something maybe not even quite human. Is he “real”? Most similarly to Gansey’s case perhaps, Ronan comments in TDT that something about Adam has been fundamentally and irreversibly changed by his bargain with Cabeswater. Is Adam in the last three books the same Adam he was in TRB now that that part of him is Cabeswater? Noah has also deteriorated into something other and inhuman by TRK, and Blue also has questionable humanity status by the end of the series.

So there’s this pervading theme with each of our five mains about what ultimately defines someone as human or inhuman and if something is “not human”, does that effect their ultimate worth or validity?

I don’t really think the books directly give us an answer for what makes a person “real” in TRC, but characters answer it in different ways. I saw a post a while ago where someone said that they didn’t think it was fair to consider Kavinsky irredeemably bad because of Matthew’s kidnapping, because “it’s not like Matthew was a real person anyway”, so clearly this person’s definition of what makes a person real would exclude dream people. (This is like, my own conjecture, but I’ve always kind of interpreted a warped version of this sort of outlook to be part of why K is the way he is. After you’ve successfully killed two people and replaced them with perfect copies, not only are you going to start believing that you live in a world devoid of consequences, but the inherent value and “realness” of everything around you is going to be called into question, which has to be incredibly lonely. Ronan is the only person Kavinsky can’t replace entirely, making him the only “real” person to him. But I’m going off topic.) 

Ronan, meanwhile, obviously disagrees with assertion that Matthew isn’t real; I highly doubt he would consider dreaming up a replacement one if Matthew had died in the confrontation with Kavinsky. So his definition of realness, despite his doubts, ultimately does include people who are dreamed. 

Blue answers the question for herself when she determines that whatever Noah has become by TRK can’t be considered human or even the “original Noah”, but that she’ll continue to call him that if that’s what he wants. Even when he can no longer be categorized as human, she still sees a fundamental value in him and respects him for the undead phenomenon she has befriended, still “real” in a way that’s utterly different from the boy killed seven years ago.

Idk, basically what I’m trying to say is that I think this question of “realness” is one that pervades throughout the Raven Cycle and so the fact that Gansey’s own state of reality is questionable is in keeping with the themes of the series. I personally that think that he’s still the same little boy that was stung by those bees, but since then, because of the “cycle” he’s just also been part Cabeswater, something ancient and timeless and inherently connected with legacy of Glendower. But still fundamentally the same boy.

But even if he isn’t, he’s still the same character we’ve grown to know and love throughout the books. We can ask the question about whether that Gansey is essentially “real”  now that we know that he’s something other than just a person, but I think Gansey’s character rings true enough as both a human being and something a little fundamentally more, that I would consider him real, Cabeswater and all. But it’s very much up to interpretation imo

Also, is my outlook on this influenced by Fullmetal Alchemist and the fact that they ask pretty much the same question about whether people stripped of the obvious qualities of humanity can still be defined as “real” and ultimately answer it with a “yes, they can”? Probably.

Oh my god I love this you guys thank you! Because I was always so bothered that there’s such a big deal about how this Gansey wasn’t going to be the exact same, but then what we see if him in the epilogue is… no different? It just felt so awful and unresolved to me. But this… this just makes so much sense and I really think it’s what was intended in the canon. I feel so settled now.

ahhh this is such a good thread and helps me a LOT with understanding the ending god i was so confused 😩 the theme of what’s real and what’s not can be seen in The dreamer trilogy as well.

I don’t think people understand how important it is to have acespec representation in mainstream media and literature. Everyone watches movies & TV shows, everyone reads books. How do you expect a teen to learn about what they are if they have never seen what it is?

Acespec people by far get the least kind of representation in media or books. How do you think an acespec person will know who/what they are if they haven’t heard about it? I’m sorry to break it to you, but not everyone goes online and reads about every LGBTQ+ term there is. The more you don’t know what your certain emotions/thoughts mean, the more you think, “What am I doing wrong?” and with that, you disconnect from your own mind and hate on it. Acespec people are suffering from self-loathe, because they do not fulfill society’s expectations about sex and love. They feel like they don’t belong anywhere. 

So we’re on it, I do not want to see another ace-exclusionist. What am I doing so wrong that bothers you so much? Why are people so hung up on invalidating other people? To give you a brief definition, you are LGBTQ+ if you are not a cis straight sex loving person, and everyone agrees with this. So why are you coming at me for not being a sex maniac and/or a person who does not seek romantic relationships? And these people that invalidate us are not just the ones that are outside the club, we get attacked on the inside, too. There are a lot of LGBTQ+ people who do not agree with what we have to say, and do not accept us. Why?

And finally, I do not want an “ally” to come and say, “Hey, the ‘A’ in LGBTQIA+ stands for us, allies!” No. You are certainly not an ally if you say that. Because if you are an ally, you promise to defend LGBTQ+ people’s rights, and right the wrongs. That’s just plain wrong. You can not erase me from a community that is for me. And if you do, don’t lie to yourself and tell yourself you’re an ally.

I do not want this topic to be read and scrolled through. This is important, please reblog so other people see. 

You are more than the pain and shame others have made you feel. You are more than the abuse you have suffered.

These things have impacted you, changed you, but they have not ruined you.

You are never ruined, never broken, never worthless.

You are worthy of love, of support, or protection. You deserve to be happy, you deserve to be free.

Calling a canon bisexual woman a lesbian becuase she has a female love interest or is in a wlw relationship is bisexual erasure and biphobic!!!!

Same thing goes for bisexual men and mlm relationships!!!!!

REBLOG THIS VERSION TOO YOU COWARDS

Same thing for bisexual people in m/f relationships that people call straight.

ALL BI/PAN/POLY ECT PEOPLE ARE STILL VALIDLY BI/PAN/POLY ECT EVEN IN SAME SEX / PASSING “STRAIGHT” RELATIONSHIPS

This absolutely works and provides you free amusement

This absolutely works and provides you free amusement

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NO REALLY, TRY IT. Try it with any kind of inappropriate humor. Sexist, racist, homophobic, all of it. Look at them blankly, say, “I don’t get it.” And watch the discomfort with the old timey pleasure of a rich old lady wearing pearls.

Rebloging this for the GIRLS with the nervous laughs. THIS IS FOR ALL THE UNCOMFORTABLE SITUATIONS. For the WOMAN too humiliated to say anything.

And if you laugh in uncomfortable situations. Follow it up and ask what they mean.

Can we talk about this?!

HEY remember in WWII when Jewish people were fleeing Germany and the USA put a quota on how many Jewish immigrants they would accept because they were worried there were too many Jewish people coming over to the USA???

Reminder that the USA has always been fucking garbage to immigrants and basic humanity

I am tired. These people make me feel I have a hole in the middle of me.

D.H. Lawrence, from The Complete Works; The Plumbed Serpent

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i'm am idiot and i love myself so I scrolled up and down this post multiple times

This is my sense of humor now

Mercí beaucoup

How clearly does the point need to be made that "police officer" is just a fucking job, one with minimal training and minimal monitoring. It is NOT some kind of promise of honesty, truth, or heroism. It is a bunch of assistant managers with extremely powerful weapons. IF you can understand "pedophiles choose to be priests and teachers so they can get to children", IF you understand "arsonists choose to be firefighters so they can be present at their own crimes" - then you can ALSO understand "people who are bigoted, violent, and power-hungry choose to be cops for the opportunities the job presents" and you can ALSO understand "any occupational culture that chooses fraternity over justice - and the allowance of violence in the name of a unified front - is therefore siding with their worst representatives"