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Let's Chat Awhile...

@islakariese / islakariese.tumblr.com

27, African American, Polycurious Demi-Biromantic Asexual, Demigirl, She/Her or They/Them pronouns
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In the Danny is Damian’s brother trope what if instead of Damian not telling the family about Danny wasn’t because of grief or shame or any of the more commonly used reasons for his silence. What if it was because he heard about how his father talked about Jason after his death, focusing and exaggerating the negative. That he was violent, angry, never listened to orders but in some iterations and popular fanon is that Jason was a cheerful and studious Robin.

What if while compiling info and researching the former robins during his tumultuous introduction he saw what kind of robin Jason was, good with kids and victims. Talking about his favorite books while on patrol and similar. Reminding Damian of his most Beloved brother.

Then he finds out about how Bruce talked about Jason after he died. Using him as an example as what not to do, erasing his good traits and just using him as a cautionary tale of what happens when you don’t follow orders. Just like what Ra’s said about Danny.

So he didn’t tell the family, not out of guilt or grief. But because his father stripped away Jason’s positive traits after death, the son he chose, adopted and loved. Who when he failed because he was a child led astray by his mother. What would he do to his brother, who loved the stars and excelled in stealth, who was quite in his kills but had no lust for killing.

Whether or not Bruce would do this to Danny’s memory doesn’t matter. B’s actions are gonna affect how Damian views his father even years after the initial actions. Because Damian will protect his brothers memory from being twisted even by their father.

@obvious-bot-is-obvious wait for real? This adds even more angst. Yum!

This!!! That’s could be a reason as to why Damian is so continuously antagonistic to Tim! But I have more thoughts now!!!!

————

“Todd how do you not find it distasteful?”

Jason looked up from his book at the kid who hadn’t even looked at him since arriving, “what do I not find ‘distasteful’?”

“How this farce of a ‘family’ treats the memory of the dead? You may have been resurrected, but their disrespect of your past even still is heinous.”

Marking the page and setting the book down on his lap, Jason took a deep breath willing the Lazarus pit to the back of his head. What ever bothered the kid so much to come to him out of anyone in the manor must mean something, “What are you on about kid?”

“Drake,” Damian spat like it was nasty on his toung, “ spoke of you as if you were some usurper to the greatness of Grayson, that you were a horrible Robin. How Father,” he spoke the title with the same amount of venom, “acted as if you were some delinquent he was forced to leash, who died during an attempt on your life at the hands of your birth mother and a mad man. How they treat you death as temporary it may have been as your fault for being a failure instead of…” Damian paused.

If Jason didn’t know how prideful Damian was how closed off he was he would think Damian was holding back tears.

“Instead of a child trusting his mother to do right by him.”

Oh shit those were tears. Damian and him had hardly interacted for the month Damian was here. What made Damian care so much about someone he didn’t know… unless it wasn’t about Jason or at least not entirely.

Trying to sound as soft and understanding as he could Jason asked, “Damian what is this really about? You were raised by Ra’s and Talia I doubt they taught you about respecting the dead. So what are you actually talking about?”

Damian seemed to pause emotions flickering across his face as he thought about what he was going to say.

“Swear on your life that what I say will never be told to anyone else.”

Well not what Jason was expecting but like hell he was gonna discourage the kid from actually expressing himself. “I swear on my life Damian, nothing will leave this room and it’ll stay between us.”

Damian nodded and stiffly took a seat on an armchair near the couch Jason was sitting on.

It took Damian a moment to start speaking, in a quiet voice so different from the one he used as he declared himself the blood son, “I had a twin brother-“

No other sentece could metaphorically knock Jason on his ass like that one did.

“-the two of us were given the honor of watching grandfather rejuvenate himself in the Lazarus Pit, mother… Danyal… and I were farther away from the pits incase grandfather resurfaced with madness. He came out screaming, he killed the servants at the edge of the pit then came at us. Guards attempted to pull the three of us back but grandfather already had Danyal by the throat. I tried to get to him but the guards held me back, and I watched. I watched as He held him up and choked him before slamming him the the floor. And began beating him.

“I don’t know how long it took for grandfather to stop. For Danyal to stop fighting back. And mother did nothing. Just watched with indifference. Grandfather left to clean himself of the blood. Mother put my brother in the pit to heal him. He sank into the water.

He didn’t come back out.”

Jason and Damian sat in silence.

“Grandfather said he was weak, that he couldn’t fight back against him was disgraceful, that the pit took as a sacrifice, so at least he was useful. Mother said he cared too much about his flights of fancy than training, that he was unfocused, and wouldn’t have survived much longer, he was a failure in every aspect and that I should be nothing like him.

“But he learned faster than I was. He was creative, solving problems quicker and in a different fashion each time, he loved the stars and we would climb to the rooftops together and he would tell me the stories of the stars, he gave scraps of meat to the vultures he encountered on the roofs. He knew more languages than I do. He could hide in the shadows better than anyone I knew, he killed without mercy but was never casually violent. In quiet moments he was gentle, gentle to the birds at are window, gentle with me. He excelled at everything he did and Mother wiped it all away, Grandfather said he was undeserving of the Al Ghul name.”

Jason connected the dots the way Bruce, Dick, and everyone else treated him and his death.

Only useful as a sacrifice to the pits.

A soldier to Batman’s crusade.

Jason moved to crouch in front of where Damian sat. Telegraphing his movements as he pulled Damian into his lap.

“Your brother, Danyal, right? He sounds wonderful.”

Damian sobbed, a quiet strangled sound proceeded by ugly wet ones into Jason’s chest.

Damian was afraid that the rest of the bats would do the same thing that Ra’s and Talia did, the something the bats did to Jason.

“Thank you for telling me Damian. I won’t tell anyone about Danyal but if you ever want to talk about him more I would be honored to listen.”

Welp. This is in my brain now. For better or for worse. So here you go.

———

A little while after his conversation with Damian Jason starts standing up for himself. Not physically, but verbally. And if he’s defending someone else too, someone they don’t even know, then that’s just between him and his youngest brother.

“I was just a kid you know.” It’s an off the wall statement made after one of the increasingly more common shared patrols. And is has the rest of the Bat Clan looking at Jason in confusion. Jason, for his part, is standing by his motorcycle, looking down at the helmet he’d just pulled off with a frown.

“What?” And that’s Dick, confused, but prompting. Always wanting to be there when one of their siblings open up.

“I was just a kid,” Jason repeats, looking up from his helmet to frown at them. “I’ve heard about what you lot said about me before I came back, and I’ve heard plenty from all of you now, but before all of this—before The Joker—I was just a kid from a bad home in a bad part of town. I didn’t really care about being a vigilante. No big goal or vengeance planned like Dick Wing had when he became Robin. I was just a kid that wanted his new dad to pay love him. To pay attention to him. And since all his time and focus went into being Batman then the best idea I could think of to get that attention was to become a part of that world.

“So I did. And it worked great! At least until it didn’t.” He looked back at his helmet. “I wasn’t ever a very good Robin. Too much Crime Alley in me I guess. So when an awful guy died on my watch well—” he shrugged and met Batman’s eyes then “It didn’t matter if it was on purpose or not. Because my dad wasn’t interested in listening to my explanation. He was convinced it was a sign I was too violent. Too volatile. So I was benched. I wasn’t good enough to be Robin. Too dark. Too dangerous. Too much of a kid from Crime Alley.”

Batman-no Bruce, the cowl is off and the man looks stricken, but Jason shakes his head sharply.

“Maybe that’s not what you meant it to be. But I was fifteen. That’s how I took it. So when I found out I still had a mother out there—someone who was supposed to love me no matter what— can you really blame me for running off to meet her? Sure it was dumb, but kids do dumb things all the time! Angry and hurt kids especially. So I ran away from home to find her. And was brutally murdered for my troubles. For daring to reach out for the person who *should* have cared about me above all others.” He sighed, placing his helmet ok the handles of his bike. “Just something to keep in mind.”

“What-what brought all this on?” Tim sounded a bit lost, but he seemed better off than Bruce or Dick at least. Jason shrugged.

“Like I said. I’ve heard plenty about the things you and Bruce here said about me while I was gone. And Signal’s never been quiet about what he thought about me. So I figured I’d make sure you had your facts straight. I wasn’t some cautionary tale. Or some jerk rebel who ran off and ignored orders to cause trouble. I was just a kid.”

And with that, he turned and started upstairs, leaving a floundering family behind him. All but one. In the emotional chaos the others almost missed his their youngest darted up the stairs to fall into step beside the young crime lord. Walking close enough to brush arms.

Almost. Well. That might answer how he knew about some of the things that were said.

No one said anything about Jason's death for a week. Not in passing, not as a caution. It had been bad when they skirted around the topic before, only bringing up what he 'did wrong' when they needed a lesson taught. Now, though, it was like they couldn't look Jason in the eye.

He knew staying in the manor for so long was a bad idea. When the weekend came around, he was up at dawn. He knew Damian would be up this early, so he took a gamble and climbed to the roof.

"Hey, kid."

"Todd."

Neither spoke as the sun rose, lighting the sky first pink, then orange, the yellow, then blue. When the sky was fully covered in the blue of a new day, Jason spoke.

"I remember when I came back to Gotham," His voice was barely louder than a whisper. "I set up in Crime Alley as soon as I could, getting a safe house put together. You wanna know the first thing I did, though?"

Damian didn't ask, but he did raise an eyebrow, looking at his older brother from the corner of his eye.

"The first thing I did was sit on the roof of the clocktower and watch the sunrise."

He knew Jason was a sap at heart, but even this was a bit much in that picture. "Oh? Why?"

"It felt, I guess, like a new beginning? I don't know, really, how to explain outside of that."

"So don't." the child said.

Again, the two lapsed into silence. Again, it was Jason who broke it. "Come on, I've got a surprise for you."

Following his brother off of the roof, Damian asked, "Now? What is it?"

"It wouldn't be a surprise if I told you, now would it? And, yes, now. I'm kidnapping you for the day."

"This is hardly a proper kidnapping if you're giving me the option."

"Not an option, actually," he smirked, "Let's go tell Alfred so he doesn't skin me when we come back."

"Don't ever go into the kidnapping business, Todd, you'd get caught before you could begin."

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cinder46231

Danny's never had a grave. Not when he died in the lab. Not when he died because of his grandfather. Graves were sacred to ghosts. It was a sign that they were someone before. It was the anchor that kept them from losing themselves to their obsessions. Danny only lasted so long because of his human side acting as his anchor.

Graves, no matter the size shape, type, form, no matter if they're was a burial, a cremation, a funeral, a casket, or even just a memorial with a picture. As long as there was physical proof that someone alive was remembering the deceased, it counted.

Danny never got a grave. Not from his friends or sister who mentally won't accept that he died and still remains, in some capacity, dead. Not from his parents whether because they don't know like his adopted pair, or because they don't care like his bio mom. Not even his twin because his grandfather would have forbidden it because Danny was weak. It would not surprise him if the mere mention of him warranted punishment.

Danny knew he was unlikely to relieve a grave, not until he died a third time and hopefully stayed dead long enough for it to be acknowledged. So he could not help but gasp out loud when he felt a connection form with his soul. It was warm and it brought a sense of joy that Danny never felt before. He didn't know what it was, just that it was the cause of the happy tears streaming down his face. It wouldn't be until he flew to find Frostbite to ask about what it was that he knew that someone made a grave for him. Someone alive was acknowledging his death and remembering him. It wasn't anyone in Amity. Sam, Tucker, and Jazz were the only ones who knew and they still won't face the truth so it had to be someone else.

Danny only knew one person outside of Amity that knew of him. Of his life and first death. Someone who was just introduced as the newest son of Bruce Wayne last week. His brother got out of the league and Danny plans.

I want Jason to just come home one night to find a slightly glowy Danny kneeling or floating in front of his little shrine, wistful and sad and grateful.

Danny probably didn't intend on being seen. Its still weeks, maybe even months before hes ready to see Damien. He just wanted to see his grave, follow the comforting little tugs, take in the serenity that is this display that he was is cared for. Isnt that what most ghosts would want?

It was almost instant that Danny realised someone was there.

It helped it was someone clearly death touched, guaranteed to be a ghost when they passed. And since they'd used a key, clearly it was their place.

"I didn't think anyone cared..."

The noise of surprise and confusion was the only response he got.

Well, one he knew of. If there was a physical one he didn't see it, still to in awe of the small shrine set up for him.

"Or at least no one knew who could, if they still cared..."

Jason didn't exactly know who this was, but he had a pretty good idea. "Of course someone cares," he closed and locked the door behind him. "Why would you think like that?"

The kid, Damian's age, didn't look away from the shrine he'd set up. Though, Jason noticed that the food offerings were gone. "Because it's taken this long."

Sighing, Jason went and knelt next to the kid. Comforting was always Dick's area of expertise, but Damian hadn't gone to him. Damian had come to Jason. Danyal had com to Jason.

"Did you set this up?" Danyal asked.

"Yeah,"

Danyal stood, leaving a picture on the plate. "Thank you." He turned slightly and smiled at Jason, "Thank you so much." Then, he disappeared.

Heaving a sigh, Jason stood and picked up the picture. It was of the Danyal. Though, instead of white hair and pale skin and green eyes, the boy had black hair and blue eyes and darker skin. The grin on his face matched both faces the boy seemed to have.

He opened the frame and put the picture in it before standing it back up. He needed to call Damian.

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nerdpoe

Jack and Maddie Fenton are trying to capture Danny, their son, to vivisect him. Just one problem; they're possessed, and no one believes Danny when he says that.

He knows his parents. They love him, and they would never do this.

Also, his breath gets frosty when they're near, and their eyes are glowing when he managed to rip off the goggles on his dad.

Danny, unfortunately, has his hands tied. Literally. They slapped some sort of ghost containment shackles on his wrists. All he can do is run, dodge, and try to get his parents to fight off whoever is possessing them.

The biggest problem is this; his begging got the attention of Superman. Like, the actual Man of Steel himself. And Superman doesn't believe him when he says his parents are possessed; he just looks all pitying and shit.

I like to imagine Danny describing the actual situation to superman in a very 'clenched teeth trying to not yell' way that alot of teens do when their trying not to get caught talking bad about their parents.

Straight up, whisper yelling, "their eyes are blue and green respectively man! People's eyes don't just turn red for funsies! So their either possessed or mind controlled, and I'm betting possessed because their gosh dang ghost hunters!"

Meanwhile Clark just is not comprehending, because who would mind control some random kids parents? Ghost hunting? Their obviously cooks, everyone knows ghost don't work like that, even if they do exsist. Deadman isnt powerful enough to pull something like this off, so obviously no other ghost could possibly do something like that. Poor kid just doesn't understand what's happening to him. He's gonna need so much therapy.

Yes! We need more of this! I’m so tired of the bad Fenton parents and forced adoption tropes.

Yes!! Have your cake and eat it too! A vivisection fic WITH Good Parents!

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islakariese

After all is said and done, with the Fenton parents locked away and Danny recovering from his vivisection, Danny somehow manages to palm two wrist-watch versions of the Specter Deflector and sneak down to their cells. Even though the JL spots him and tries to stop him, he's too quick and manages to get the Deflectors on his parents, forcing the ghosts out before sucking them into the Thermos.

Danny is tired and in pain. The Fentons are exhausted from being puppetted for so long but are begging Danny to forgive them. The JL is staring at the whole scene, uncomprehending.

After taking a minute to breathe, Danny walks up to Superman, stares him dead in the eyes, and says, "If you EVER AGAIN ignore what someone is telling you or assume you know better just because you're an adult and they're a kid, I WILL find a way to make you regret it."

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damazcuz

Certain words can change your brain forever and ever so you do have to be very careful about it.

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Had a random thought that may or may not be influenced by my being in church today

We've seen 'accidental cult' au's for Danny. But have we seen any accidental religion creator danny? Where he becomes a preacher/priest/pastor/rabbi/guru/what-have-you/whatever-you-want-to-call-his-position?

One where he (either as fenton or phantom) begins by answering questions about the afterlife semi absentmindedly (lectures and explanations from various leaders in the realms running on repeat in his mind), so tired he doesn't notice when he starts explaining what he had been taught.

It started with him overhearing a question/conversation in school. Something small. He answered it and moved on. Forgot about it. But it keeps happening. Until people start coming to him with questions regarding the afterlife (realms) on a semi regular basis and he does his best to explain (if they understand maybe they won't be so eager to hate ghosts? Maybe they'll be able to foster understanding? Maybe he won't be so tired).

While he starts answering one person's questions others gather and hang around. Listen. And start asking their own questions. Soon, its simpler to just arrange a dedicated time and place to meet and discuss.

It starts as a simple Q&A. And over time grows and becomes more elaborate until its an official thing. He finds people who had been listening to him answering questions when they come across them (in person, online, etc). That some had taken videos and written transcripts. That those are being passed around. It grows beyond his hometown.

And Danny? Is really not sure what to make of this. (I wanna vote he doesn't become aware its a whole thing that he's been accidentally grown and run until someone who is notably *not* from Amity park calls him [insert religious leader title here]. Cue freaking out to Sam and Tucker (maybe jazz and/or Valerie too) who have been helping to run and organize this whole thing being like 'did you just realize this *now*??'

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evilminji

Oh that's a thing that DEFINITELY would happen at college? And it would start with "no, look, my family studied this" and said with such tired absolute certainty that clearly HE believes it? And? Psssh, okay buddy.

But like... it was kinda cool. Hey, hey, ask him something else!

And? The dude just? Keeps having answers. Internally consistent ones too. No one can trip him up. He can get REALLY into detail. People start thinking about it. Writing it down to try to pick holes in it or just to read later. And like... okay, screw it, they're kinda curious about this one thing, right?

And then how does THEIR religion fit into it? Lemme guess, one true God rig-... wait it fits? His too? Hers? In this great big patchwork of beauty and faith and life after death?

.....and this dude doesn't SEEM like he's selling anything. WE keep harrasing HIM. Huh.

.............hey, for a pizza, what's the manifestation of Time like? Do animals even HAVE souls? Did dinosaurs? How does Reincarnation work into all this?

And? It's like finding a prophet in the cereal isle. A messiah eating cold pizza in the square. Someone with such wisdom and power, that has made themselves look like YOU. Lives like YOU. Not draped in gold and finery, in wealthy halls high above. But in ratty jeans and a shirt that's washed half to death, tired but kind. Patient.

Who considers your questions. Does not hoard away his secret knowledge, to leave humanity struggling in the dark. But sits, waiting for you to just... to just ASK. As though all this time, all we had to do... was ASK.

He wears a NASA shirt. Studies the stars.

"Aren't they beautiful?" he says. "Isn't it amazing?" His grin suggests.

And when does amusement turn to curiosity? Turn to fascination? To belief? To FAITH? It's all so gradual. Like the change of a tide. Like falling in love. No one is quite certain how they found themselves there, but... but it makes SENSE. Like they have found a truth and discovered a secret.

They just want to share it. He's not making them. Not even ASKING them too! Not so much as hinting! But wouldn't YOU want to tell people? If you finally figured it all out? If you were happy and made friends and everything suddenly made SENSE?

Danny is gonna freak out. He Accidentally A Cult ™ and it's everywhere. He was just minding his business man. Being bribed with food and maybe making some friends. The Fenton Oblivious Gene's were working STRONG with this one!

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reblogged

I recently had surgery, and at the time I came home, I had both my cat and one of my grandma's cats staying with me.

- Within hours of surgery, I wake up from a nap to my cat gently sniffing at my incisions with great alarm.

- I was not allowed to shower the first day after surgery, and the cats, seeing that The Large Cat is not observing its cleaning ritual, decided I must be gravely disabled and compensated by licking all the exposed skin on my arms, face, and legs.

- I currently have to sleep with a pillow over my abdomen because my cat insists on climbing on top of me and covering my incisions with her body while I sleep (which is very sweet but not exactly comfortable without the pillow). She also lays across me facing my bedroom door, presumably on guard for attackers who may try to harm me while I'm sleeping and injured.

That's love. 🐈‍⬛🐈❤️

cats are so very unclear on what is wrong with us but they want to help

Last time I had a really bad migraine my cat curled herself round my head and purred sympathetically, and actually stayed there through two of her normal mealtimes. It wasn't until I was able to stagger to the kitchen and grab a protein bar for myself that she gave a very small, polite miaow to the effect of "while you're up... could you get something for me too?"

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drtanner

She does look exceptionally polite and caring, it has to be said. 💜

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reblogged

Trans Zuko is so funny to me. I’m not saying this to try and make fun of people who headcanon him as trans - trans headcanons are great and I support them. It’s just wild because it implies Ozai was out here like:

[Image description: a white woman with blonde hair is saying:

‘I can excuse burning a kid’s face, but I draw the line at misgendering’.

The words ‘burning a kid’s face’ and ‘misgendering’ have been edited in.

End description]

Possible explanations I just pulled out of my arse:

  • Being trans is very normalised in the Fire Nation and misgendering is considered dishonourable and makes you Look Really Bad.
  • Zuko’s transition was convenient because Ozai wanted a male heir.
  • Zuko went to the Mother of Faces or whatever the spirit was called to get a new (male) face and body and part of the magic was that his family would only remember the new him.
  • Ursa allowed Zuko to transition when he was very young and Ozai just straight up forgot that he used to be a ‘girl’ because he pays no attention to his family.

Trans rights not children’s rights

That last one tho.

Ozai over here frowning as Ursa calmly presents him with Zuko and Azula one day all like “I thought I had two daughters but I don’t know enough about my children to dispute it.”

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wemblingfool

That last one… that’s the one.

I once saw someone suggest that Ozai failed to notice because Zuko and Azula traded genders.

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ohfolie

hey sorry we put your good friend jonathan harker in a time loop. yeah he’s about to leave for his business trip again. but at least he’ll send you emails

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[transcription of a reddit comment]

ew72 • 19 hr. ago

I'm a type 1 diabetic. I require insulin to live, multiple times a day.

When I was in middle school, many years ago, we didn't have insulin pumps and had to use syringes and vials like everyone else.

The school refused to let me carry it with me, meaning I had to go to the nurses office several times a day to inject. It's not just before lunch but could be any number of times depending on the current blood sugar levels.

The district then cut nurse staff to just spending half a day at two schools, and the nurse left before I had lunch.

I asked the office staff to unlock the office so I could take my insulin and eat lunch. They refused.

By middle school, I'd been dealing with t1 for about 5 years, and didn't take shit on the topic. I went to the school lobby, picked up the payphone (I just dated myself) and called 911, telling them, "Hi, I'm at (school), am type 1 diabetic and the office won't unlock a door and let me take insulin."

They sent a fire truck, and a bunch of firemen met me outside and walked me to the office and asked, while ignoring the staff, which room was the nurses office. I pointed to the door and he was like, "Okay boys, chop it down, this kid need his insulin!"

Suddenly, the office secretary could unlock the door and I didn't need to put it in the nurses office everyday anymore.

End id.]

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So a while back, a fairly left-wing friend of mine was shocked at the thought of Left-Wing Holocaust Denial, asking how it could even be possible, how can the Left even deny the Holocaust given everything (quote: “why would the LEFT be in denial? After you read Elie Wiesel, you can’t deny any of it. Same with Maus, Frieda Appleman-Jurman’s memoirs, and all that. Also, Lois Lowry won a Newberry medal for Number the Stars”). So I’ve been chewing on this for a while now.

First, Right-Wing Holocaust Denial is straight up “denial that the Holocaust happened”–often with an undertone of “But we wish that it had and it was a great idea”. They deny the number of deaths, or excuse the Nazis, or say that the Jews had it coming, or say that it didn’t happen at all, that sort of thing. It’s a very blunt, straightforward form of denial.

Comparatively, Left-Wing Holocaust Denial takes a different, more sophisticated form that functions on multiple levels–with an undertone of its own along the lines of “the Jews are exaggerating to try to portray themselves as victims”–and to talk about this form of denial, I have to explain what the Holocaust was.

So this gets a bit long, because what is being denied is long, but I will ask you to bear with me.

But, TL:DR:

Right Wing Holocaust Denial denies the body count and the atrocities…

Left Wing Holocaust Denial denies everything that built up to it, the centuries of Othering and murders, and the aftereffects.

And Left Wing Holocaust Denial is more insidious.

Because when Right-wingers say outlandish things like “the Holocaust never happened”, most reasonable people with laugh and see the obvious ridiculousness in the statement.

Left Wing Holocaust Denial, however, takes antisemitism and wraps it in a disguise of “progressive” language.

They call Judaism “just a religion.”

They say “well the Nazis persecuted gay people too!”

They say that the Holocaust “wasn’t about race.”

They spread the myth that Hitler had Jewish ancestry.

They call Jews “white Europeans.”

They say it was “a long time ago.”

They spread the propaganda that the Soviets “freed” the Jews when in reality it was “out of the frying pan and into the fire”. Holocaust survivors who ended up in Soviet territory suffered terribly, forced to denounce their Judaism if they wanted any chance at human rights. Soviets committed massive atrocities against Jews, and to deny that is an extension of Holocaust Denial.

The refuse to acknowledge that antisemitism still continues to this day, and that liberating Auschwitz wasn’t the end of it. Jews freed from concentration camps ended up in displaced persons camps, and many suffered and died from disease there. Some Jews tried to return to their former homes, but found their neighbours turned against them, and some even committed pogroms against Holocaust survivors who dared try to return home.

Even Jews who hadn’t directly suffered at the hands of the Nazis were traumatized. Jews outside of Europe had known about the Holocaust for a long time, many had gotten frantic letters from relatives in Europe. Jews outside of Europe begged for their countries to do something, but they refused.

After the atrocities of the Holocaust became known to the general public, the Allies spread the propaganda that they “just didn’t know”. But they *did* know. They turned away ships of refugees because they didn’t want more Jews on their soil. Then the Allies had the audacity to paint themselves as the heroes - freeing the poor helpless, weak Jews. That’s how the myth that the Jews were “like sheep to the slaughter” spread.

But we weren’t helpless. The Jewish people fought back, they organized resistance networks both inside and outside Europe. Mizrachi Jews in North Africa sabotaged German and Italian supply chains. American, British, and Canadian Jews raised money for refugees, and many joined the military knowing how dangerous it would be for them as Jews, because they would fight to the death if it meant saving their people. Jews bombed train tracks to concentration camps and parachuted behind enemy lines.

And we suffered. Six million of us were killed, and our global population still hasn’t recovered. We are still traumatized today from the Holocaust, and many of us not from the atrocities themselves but from the global inaction in response to it. I would have nightmares as a child about the Holocaust, I was terrified. I taught myself German and in every house we lived in, thought about where I could hide. I am not descended of Holocaust survivors, but the Jewish people are a family, and when some of us suffer, we all suffer. That’s what Leftist Holocaust Deniers deny.

They deny everything about the Holocaust. They’ll say “it happened, but- ”. And that’s the worst part.

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neophyte-no1

I read an opinion piece somewhere. It read, ‘In every era, the Jews will be condemned by the major moral authority of the times in order to make us into a scapegoat. In the time when the Church ruled, we were branded Christ Killers. In the time when Science ruled, we were branded genetically subhuman monsters. And now in the era of Social Justice, we are branded fascists and oppressors. And it is never about what we are actually doing or have done, because when they come for us, they always come for all of us, down to the smallest child.‘ This is why I have never, never, never, never been okay with branding people as ‘oppressors’ for how they were born. When you say someone is evil based on how they are born, it will always end up used as a scapegoat for evil to sacrifice to protect itself, no matter how insightful the ideas around it may be. And with shoddy, fabricated ‘proof’ in hand, they’ll say, “But it’s how you all act,” and they confidently mark down kindergartens as centers of evil that must be destroyed. This is not a hypothetical.

@realphilosophytube did a video on Antisemitism a few years back, and there’s one quote in there that really struck me, and you just echoed it:

The specific bit is at 39:43 in the video:

So what we’re seeing here is lots of different groups of people using Jews and Judaism as a kind of intellectual tool. They want Jews to occupy a particular place in society so that it fits their overall picture of what society should be, whether that’s a Catholic picture or a socialist one or a fascist one or whatever.

And according to historian David Nirenberg and his book Anti-Judaism, this is what we see right throughout history. The idea of Judaism, as opposed to actual Jewish people, is a basic concept in Western thought. Different people pick it up and use it to define themselves by showing what they’re against.

And that’s exactly what you’re outlining here–the concept of “The Jew” as Immoral Opposition is just too useful to be abandoned… even by people who claim to be above such things.

I don’t disagree with and of this, but I want to suggest another possible way of looking at it.

Because it’s true, the far left doesn’t deny the Holocaust. In fact, the far left thinks it’s very important that we discuss the Holocaust.

But don’t let them tell you that it’s because they would never deny clear evidence, or out of respect for the victims.

The reaction to October 7 has made it quite clear how willing the far left is to deny or excuse atrocities that are inconvenient to their ideology.

Because that’s the root of Holocaust denial: the Holocaust is extremely inconvenient to the far right. It’s quite a lot harder to insist that your movement is about protecting your cultural heritage, and not about violence or hatred, when there’s a rather well known case of your ideology being resulting in the enslavement and murder of millions upon millions of people.

For this same reason, the memory of the Holocaust is a highly valuable resource to many on the left.

Any time someone’s rhetoric gets a bit too fascist, a bit too focused on race, it can be trotted out.

We know where this leads, the leftist can say. The Nazis are a symbol of evil for a reason. You don’t want to be like the Nazis, do you?

But then there’s a group of people who keep protesting this.

Not every cruel government action is the same as the Holocaust, they say.

Overusing Holocaust comparisons make them seem less serious, which is disrespectful to the victims and can be harmful to the families and communities of survivors and those who did not survive alike, they say.

The Holocaust was about fascism and racism, yes, but there is also thousands of years of context that won’t apply to other situations, they say.

This is our history and our cultural trauma, they say. We were the primary targets; stop talking over us.

And, the leftist reflects, this last argument would be much more convincing if the Jews didn’t keep missing the point of the Holocaust.

If they didn’t focus so much on treating it as a crime and a tragedy that they missed its value as a case study and example.

If they didn’t use it to argue for absurd things like building a military for self defense and maintaining the distinctiveness of their own religion, rather than learning the proper lessons, which are obviously about the evils of warfare and the importance of universal humanism.

If they didn’t deny that the problems which caused the Holocaust are specifically White and Right Wing, and keep trying to criticize left wing groups, or those who have been the victims of White violence.

My god, the memory of the Holocaust is wasted on the Jews!

And so, the leftist concludes, they have not only the right, but the responsibility to reclaim that memory from those who fail so terribly to use it as it should be used. To emphasize what is truly important, and not allow the rest to be used as a distraction.

And if this sometimes requires shouting down Jews, or disrupting their memorials? If the Jews are right, and framing the memory of the Holocaust in this way does put them in danger?

Well, when one has a duty this important, some risks and sacrifices are sometimes valuable. If the Jews can’t understand that, isn’t that just more proof that they never deserved something as valuable as the memory of the Holocaust in the first place?

(And maybe, the leftist thinks, this is their just punishment for so abusing such a valuable resource.)

No, the far left doesn’t deny the Holocaust.

Why would they, when they can colonize it instead?

“Jews are considered to have forgone their right to own even a part-share in defining anti-Semitism, or to judge the extent to which they are, or indeed ever were, its victims. By virtue of their failure to learn the lessons of the Holocaust and implement them in Israel — or indeed in any other parts of the world they continue to scheme, lobby and exploit — they have cancelled out all entitlement to the usual decencies, let alone the usual legalities, in matters of racial discrimination and incitement.”

This is what I meant when I said goyim are jealous and resentful that we ‘get’ to have the holocaust. Jews don’t deserve such an unambiguous example of victimhood and persecution. We’re not morally pure or righteous enough. We’re not exotic enough to be fetishized as noble savages. We’re not worthy of suffering because we’re not worthy of the empathy that would be proportional to that suffering. We’re not cool enough to be main characters, and they’re mad that the juicy, angsty backstory has been wasted on us instead of their fan favorite characters. It’s this really twisted mix of Christian martyrdom and fandom.

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germiyahu

I feel like when a 5th or more of young people think the Holocaust was “a myth” and almost a 3rd additionally aren’t convinced either way, we can confidently say that there are many leftists who engage in Holocaust denial. And more than 50% of young people don’t agree that Holocaust denial is inherently antisemitic. Almost 20% outright claim that it’s not, and almost 40% just don’t know, they really don’t know you guys.

When young people hold more left leaning views now more than ever, it’s pretty statistically impossible for such a huge proportion of young people to be outright Holocaust deniers or Holocaust skeptics and only comprise of right wingers. It’s just not. Many of them statistically speaking have to be left wingers. Especially when large parts of the Right are philosemitic and pride themselves on America’s legacy of “ending the Holocaust and saving democracy.”

If only a third of young people identify as conservatives but half of young people are skeptical about the Holocaust, someone has to make up the difference? And that’s if 100% of young conservatives are Holocaust deniers, which is definitely not true. The data don’t lie!

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When people get a little too gung-ho about-

wait. cancel post. gung-ho cannot be English. where did that phrase come from? China?

ok, yes. gōnghé, which is…an abbreviation for “industrial cooperative”? Like it was just a term for a worker-run organization? A specific U.S. marine stationed in China interpreted it as a motivational slogan about teamwork, and as a commander he got his whole battalion using it, and other U.S. marines found those guys so exhausting that it migrated into English slang with the meaning “overly enthusiastic”.

That’s…wild. What was I talking about?

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loredwy

I cant believe this tweet is how I find out

now all the things you guys have told me about american high schools are starting to make sense

holy shit.

It's 100% because of abusers parents and guardians who want to deprive their children of a secular upbringing and indoctrinate them into whatever nonsense they believe in, as well as discipline them however they see fit and exploit them for money.

Specifically, Articles 13 and 14 are concerned with the freedom of expression, the freedom to seek out, receive, and impart information, and the freedom of thought, conscience, and religion. Article 17 concerns access to mass media of both national and international origin. Article 19 concerns protecting children from abuse and neglect. Article 24 concerns access to healthcare. Article 28 concerns access to education, and Article 29 further stipulates that education should promote tolerance and respect of other people and cultures. Article 32 protects children from economic exploitation.

In the USA, the land of the free, we can't have any of that! If a parent believes the outside world is evil and wants to keep their kids from reading books that aren't about how God will send them to Hell for speaking out of turn, they have that freedom! If a parent believes that medicine is evil and wants to keep their kid from being vaccinated or put their kid on a raw meat diet or use homeopathy to treat an inflamed appendix, they have that freedom! If a parent wants to teach their kid that white people are the master race and that it is their duty to massacre everyone else, they have that freedom! And if a parent wants to take their kids out of school to work on the farm or get into the acting business, they have that freedom!

Sure, a horrific amount of children might be subject to abuse that will scar them forever and potentially lead to their untimely deaths, but that's just the price we pay for freedom! Freedom for parents to treat their kids like property, that is. The kids don't get any freedom.

Pay attention to specific educational scenarios conservatives deem inappropriate and you notice a lot of them are actually tied to prevention of child abuse (such as teaching about consent and identifying inappropriate touch)...

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islakariese

It never occurred to me to wonder whether or not the whole "you have little to no control over your life and don't have the same rights as adults" thing was an international standard

Turns out it's just the US being uniquely horrible again