I’ll admit that once in awhile I miss the hey day of Tumblr rp. Great muns back then. Great ships. Hannigram, ofc. Other faves Hannibal/Moriarty, Hannibal/Alex (London Spy), Will/Alex, Bond/Q.
Sigh.
Spice
“Will there be anything else, gentlemen?”
“I think we’re all set.”
“Very good, sir. I’ll return with your check.”
***
“That was great. I’m glad you dragged me along.”
“Hm? … Oh, yes.”
“What are you doing?”
“Nothing.”
“You just put something in your pocket.-”
“I didn’t.”
-“And now your plate is empty.”
“Hardly surprising. As you said, it was quite good.”
“Yeah but you never clean your plate. You always leave that one vanity bite.”
“Vanity bite?”
“You know. That ‘I’m far too delicate to finish an entire meal’ bite.”
“I do not.”
“Every time.”
“Be that as it may.”
“You could have asked for a doggie bag.”
“A what?”
“For leftovers. People do that. Normal people. Although here I’m sure they call it something else. Probably comes wrapped in a foil swan.”
“I couldn’t possibly.”
“You’d rather have food shoved in your trousers.”
“I was simply …”
“If you needed something warm down there, you should have just asked.”
“Really, Will.”
“What then? Why the cloak and dagger?”
“If you really must know.”
“Oh, I must.”
“It’s the spice blend. I’m certain I’ve identified most of it, but there’s one element eluding me. And I …”
“And it’s driving you crazy.”
“In a word. Yes.”
“So you’re going to reverse engineer the quiche.”
“Well not the whole quiche of course. The major components are quite basic. Pedestrian really. It’s just that one … dastardly spice.”
“So, I know what you’ll be doing all afternoon. Guess I’ll read my book.”
“You could help.”
“I think that’s a little above my pay grade. Playing mad scientist in your kitchen.”
“Assistant mad scientist.”
“Did you really just demote me as a way to get me to say yes?”
“… Yes.”
“Will you wear a lab coat?”
“If you like.”
“You already have one, don’t you?”
“One never knows when the need might arise.”
“You’re a freak, you know that?”
“Even before I put quiche in my trousers.”
Happy Hour
I couldn’t remember if I posted this old fic but I couldn’t find it and I was feeling Will & Bev sooo
(thanks to @woodsjpeg for conjuring the feels with sweet Bev & Will art)
Will felt the weight of a long day lifting. A few more drinks and he might even skip the grading he’d stuffed in his bag.
Bev smiled behind her beer. “Does he make you call him daddy?”
Will winced. “No!”
“Just asking.”
“He doesn’t make me call him anything.”
“Jeez. Okay.” She lowered her eyes.
Another gulp of whiskey unleashed a sigh. “Sorry I snapped.”
“Christ, Will. It’s me. If you apologized every time -”
She might as well have stamped asshole on his forehead. “Yeah. Fine.”
“What’s it like though?”
“Oh god, Bev.”
“I don’t need the blow by blow.”
His head dropped with a groan.
She leaned in. “You know what I mean. Just … what’s he like?”
Will gave a resigned sigh. “You’ve seen us together.”
“Sure. At work. At the Christmas party. He followed you around like a lovesick puppy. All moon-eyed.”
“That’s what he’s like.”
“That’s not what I’m talking about,” she huffed.
“I know what you’re talking about. And that’s what he’s like.”
Bev blinked, processing. “Shit.”
“Yeah.”
“You mean -”
“Yep.” His lips smacked.
-“All worshipful and goopy?”
“More or less.”
She slumped back. “Huh.”
“Jealous?” He tilted a brow.
Bev cocked her head. “Fuck you.”
Will stood, shrugging as he reached for his wallet.
“Now if you told me he has a big dick I might be jealous.”
His face lit up. “Oh he has that too.”
Her eyes sharpened like daggers. “You’re an asshole.”
“An asshole with a date.”
She glanced at the twenty he tossed down. “You’re abandoning me?”
“Looks like.”
“I see where your priorities are.”
He smiled, holding his hands wide as he backed away. “Big. Like, really big. Huge.”
Bev rolled her eyes. “I hate you.”
“Mine’s pretty big too.”
“Go away.”
He stretched his palms wider, grinning.
“Don’t hurt yourself,” she added, nearly a shout.
“He’s a doctor,” Will yelled back.
The Interrogation Scene
“You know why you’re here, Agent Graham.”
“Let’s just skip the formalities and get on with it. I know how this works.”
“You understand this is just an informal interview, Dr. Lecter?”
“Of course. I’m happy to provide whatever information or assistance I can offer.”
“I’m going to be asking you about the events of January 8th. You were with Dr. Lecter that night.”
“I was at his house, yes.”
“On the evening of January 8th, you were with Will Graham. Is that correct?”
“Will came to my home at my invitation. He’d visited for dinner on a few prior occasions as well. He was always highly complimentary in regard to my cooking and I’ve found him to be a most pleasant dinner companion.”
“What was the reason for your visit?”
“He likes feeding me.”
“So, this was a regular thing - the two of you having dinner?”
“Regular is a matter of subjective opinion, of course. It was not an infrequent occurrence. As I said, I enjoy Will’s company. I enjoy providing a fine meal. Something I expect he rarely takes time for outside of our shared repasts.”
“You’ve had dinner there before?”
“Yeah.”
“What time did he arrive?”
“I believe it was close to nine. Yes. I recall that I had just taken the roast out of the oven to rest. I was moving on to prepare a vinaigrette for the salad when I heard him at the door.”
“What time did you get there?”
“Around nine.”
“Did you notice anything unusual about him?”
“I dare say Will is an unusual fellow. Part of his charm. As to that particular night, he arrived as he often does. With an air of brusqueness and a sprinkling of dog hair.”
“Anything seem different about him?”
“Have you met Hannibal Lecter?”
“So, then you had dinner?”
“Not immediately. Will joined me in the kitchen to share a glass of Barolo while I put the finishing touches on dinner. I know that he prefers whiskey but I find a pre-meal glass of wine is much more suitable for preparing the palate. He’s kind enough to indulge me.”
“Did you sit down for dinner then?”
“No. He’s always got to make a little show of having a glass of wine first.”
“What did you talk about?”
“If I recall, I was telling Will about the winery where I purchased the Barolo. Rolling hills. The soil so dense it’s nearly black. A long growing season gives the wine an almost licorice taste, with the faintest touch of hibiscus. Have you been to the Piedmont region?”
“What did you talk about?”
“Wine. Italy. Something.”
“And then you had dinner?”
“Yes. Will accompanied me to the dining room where I served the salad course. He’s not very fond of vegetables, but I’ve learned that if I add a touch of honey to the dressing he will acquiesce to taking a few bites.”
“Then did you have dinner?”
“Yeah. We sat down for dinner.”
“Any conversation?”
“Good conversation is essential to a good meal. Among the reasons I prefer to dine with company.”
“Did you talk?”
“He talked.”
“What did you talk about?”
“Art, life, literature. We spoke at length about the battle-forged friendship of Achilles and Patrocles. A fond subject for both of us.”
“What did he talk about?”
“History. Some Greeks.”
“And then?”
“After the salad plates were cleared, I served a roast saddle of venison. It’s one of Will’s favorites and I enjoy making it for him whenever possible.”
“Did he talk about anything else?”
“Probably. I was eating. I wasn’t paying attention.”
“After dinner?”
“After dinner we retired to the living room for a snifter of brandy. The room was rather cold so Will started a fire. One of the small graces of winter, the smell of a fireplace.”
“What did you do after dinner?”
“We had another drink in the living room.”
“And you did that until what time?”
“Time is a bit fluid when you’re in good company. I would imagine it was about an hour later when we finished our drinks. One can’t rush brandy. It must yield itself.”
“How long did that take?”
“I don’t know. An hour?”
“What time would that have been?”
“Closing in on midnight would be my best estimate.”
“That would put it around …”
“Midnight maybe?”
“So, Will left at midnight?”
“No. He stayed a few more hours.”
“You left then?”
“Not right then.”
“I have to ask, Dr. Lecter. What did you do during those hours?”
“…”
“What did you do next, Agent Graham?”
“…”
“We played chess.”
“We played chess.”
Unpopular opinion:
Sex Lives of College Girls needs an ace character.
Hannigram AU: Welcome Home
They say you can’t go home again.
And yet here Will is standing on the doorstep of the house he grew up in.
He rarely talked to his Dad after he’d left the last time, the need to get away so great, but they called on special occasions. The call he got last week was not one of those times.
“I got cancer, Willy. The really bad kind. Doc says I…”
Will still remembers growing up wanting his father’s approval, craving it so badly he became less than his true self, but still he flew here anyway to be a ‘good’ son. He knocks, heart beating wildly in his chest, and when the door opens he frowns at who is on the other side.
The man is wearing what looks like a sweater, which is odd seeing as how it’s at least seventy outside, and his smile makes Will feel oddly welcome. He looks nothing like the type of people Dad hung around.
“Who are you?”
“Will,” he says, taking Will’s hand and covering it with his other, “How nice to meet you at last.”
Will pulls his hand back. “I asked you a question, Mister. Just who—”
Hannigram AU: Welcome Home
They say you can’t go home again.
And yet here Will is standing on the doorstep of the house he grew up in.
He rarely talked to his Dad after he’d left the last time, the need to get away so great, but they called on special occasions. The call he got last week was not one of those times.
“I got cancer, Willy. The really bad kind. Doc says I…”
Will still remembers growing up wanting his father’s approval, craving it so badly he became less than his true self, but still he flew here anyway to be a ‘good’ son. He knocks, heart beating wildly in his chest, and when the door opens he frowns at who is on the other side.
The man is wearing what looks like a sweater, which is odd seeing as how it’s at least seventy outside, and his smile makes Will feel oddly welcome. He looks nothing like the type of people Dad hung around.
“Who are you?”
“Will,” he says, taking Will’s hand and covering it with his other, “How nice to meet you at last.”
Will pulls his hand back. “I asked you a question, Mister. Just who—”
Twitter > Tumblr Migration
I don’t really understand the folks who are preaching at ppl not to come back to Tumblr. I mean, I get the idea that Tumblr is not going to be any more welcoming to nudity, etc than it has been. I get that. The skepticism. But I mean - Elon fucking Musk is running Twitter. Soooo - you want to make your bed with him instead? You want to provide free content that drives traffic on his site, even if it’s just shitposting about how much you hate him? You think you’re going to be the one who tips the balance and sends him into bankruptcy - by *again, checks notes* using his platform?
M’kay.
One issue with “fandom reflects what we see in canon” wrt the focus on white male characters is that most canon also has a bias towards characters being straight by default. And fandom often has no problem subverting that canonical bias, for various (totally valid!) reasons.
It just seems a bit myopic to point to canon as the sole arbiter of fannish content creation when there’s another element in play: that of fannish choice. Of free will, as it were, since transformative works, by their very nature, are rarely direct duplicates.
Yes, there’s a certain amount of give and take, like a rubber band. Some people like stretching the source material as far as it can go, finding the point where it snaps and becomes something new. But admittedly, that’s not the majority of fans. The majority of fans stretch canon in predictable ways, according to preexisting biases that the community of fandom rewards (and thus perpetuates).
You can see this most clearly when examining fandoms for source media that have diversity, where supporting/minor characters who are white men get elevated by fandom over central/primary characters who are women &/or people of color. Or where a diverse source canon is then used as the setting for a story (or the basis for an AU) focusing on white male characters from another canon. But I would argue that the pattern has always been visible - this issue has been discussed for years, and while certain segments of fandom claim to want more diverse media, their response to existing diverse media tells a different story.
Or rather, it tells the same story: that of prioritizing stories about white men. And that prioritization is a choice, conscious or no.
We choose which source media to build our fandoms around, sometimes uplifting obscure canon and sometimes extending the lifespan of a fandom beyond its visible impact on wider culture. We choose which canonical ships to rally around or to dismiss. We choose which side characters become ‘fan favorites’ within our circles.
(Is it a conscious choice? Is it a deliberate one? maybe, maybe not. but that’s the thing about unexamined, internalized biases: they can shape your behaviors and attitudes without conscious/deliberate action on your part. the active choice is to be aware of our biases, to unlearn them if we think they’re objectionable, and to be careful about how they might crop up in shared community spaces.)
We choose to do more with source media than merely replicate: that’s what makes transformative works transformative.
I suppose there are 2 schools of thought. Those who see “transformative” fandom as a way address copyright laws. Which I would argue is the minority (although perhaps OTW’s preferred definition). And those who see it as moving the needle away from the status quo in terms of representation. Which I would argue is the majority of fans who claim to support “transformative fanworks.”
And absolutely yes. (And this is my interpretation of your vibe, not putting words in your mouth.) If you’re creating something you feel is “transformative” it’s worthwhile to ask yourself what it is transforming? What stereotypes are you disrupting? What erasure are you addressing? Why dynamics are you subverting? Or are you recreating the status quo?
If you center your story on cis, white, “abled” men, whose interest does that serve? If you erase women/femmes and/or people of color, whose interest does that serve? If you portray gay men as lust-driven to the point of eroticizing children or family members, whose interest does that serve? I’m not calling you out. I’m not saying don’t write it. I’m asking you to think about WHO you’re representing and HOW. And if your reply to that is, “I don’t care. This is my space,” go with god. You made your position clear.
Women/femme representation in Fandom
Within the realm of transformative fandom (as opposed to curatorial fandom), who are your favorite women/femmes represented in fanfic and fanart and why?
If you struggle to find examples, can you think of why that might be? How does it make you feel?
Inglenookie don't rage at me or lose your temper with me. But could you explain and tell me where you have observed "Racism in the Fandom" ?
Idek when this message was sent bc I haven't been on Tumblr for awhile, but a couple things:
If you approach me with "don't rage at me or lose your temper," you clearly have some preconceived notions about me. Which is weird given Idek who you are. Which means (I assume) that we've never interacted. Idk about anyone else, but when I send a message to someone, I don't preface it with some passive-aggressive dunk on their temperament.
Second, Google is free. If that's too hard for you, feel free to come back and I'll give you a lesson in Boolean searches.
Off Musk’s Twitter for good. Feels like breathing again. I don’t blame anyone who stays. I understand. Just couldn’t deal with it. I wish there was some way to protect my username after the deactivation period other than reactivating for a hot second and then deactivating again to reset the clock, but Idk if there is. I do not want to reactivate just to squat on it though. I don’t want to give him even one more user.
Que sera sera.
Anyway. What’s up, Tumblr?
Several people asked: Why is there a limit to the number of reports on a fic? What happens if you get multiple reports about the same user? Does it affect how you handle the investigation?
While mass reporting on other sites like Twitter can cause actions to be taken faster and harsher, this is not true of AO3. I want to assure you that every report is handled by a real person and we evaluate every case individually. We do not hide or delete works, suspend or ban users, or otherwise take any other action without first investigating. Plus a second volunteer has to review the case before any action is taken, and sometimes more than two people have to agree.
The site allows a lot of content that people find objectionable. The TOS makes it clear in sections I.E. and IV.I. that PAC will not take action just because something is offensive or there's a lot of reports. If whatever is reported is not against our TOS, we will not take action. It doesn't matter why or how many times a work or person was reported, that won't change our decision.
On the other hand, if whatever is reported is against our TOS, more reports will not make us act faster. Actually, more reports about the same issue tends to slow us down. Getting a bunch of reports about the same thing just creates more administrative work that needs to be completed before we can investigate the case. Basically, when we get more reports, then someone has to first collect all the reports together and check to see if any of them provide additional evidence about the issue at hand. Usually the other reports are just duplicates and do not have any new info.
This is one of the reasons why we restrict the number of times anything can be reported. The team only ever needs one report to investigate. Unless you have additional information you forgot to include in the initial report, please do not re-report something or ask others to report the same thing.
— guest mod tealight
If there's something you want to know, you can ask me here.
Disclaimer: I am speaking for myself and not behalf of AO3 or PAC. While I can answer general questions, I cannot tell you if a specific work or user is breaking the rules. If you want to file a report or otherwise need an official PAC response, you can find PAC's contact form by clicking on the "Policy Questions & Abuse Reports" link on any AO3 page.
I’m sorry. This is a garbage explanation. What if the first report was clearly in bad faith but other users have serious, legit issues to report? Are they just shit out of luck? As well as every subsequent person who has something to report?
Can you point me to one other site of AO3′s size that limits reports to one report per post/item?
The thing that stands out to me about the notable backlash to Blaise being described as a Black man and then played by one – Louis Cordice in the film series – is that it showed really plainly in the antiblackness from fans in fandom when it came to things like… shipping.
Blaise went from one of the most popular characters and most-shipped in fandom – at a point where people would be like “wait how did you even do this” – to… not that.
TW Q SLUR
[Transcript: Ok, so I just wrote an essay about this for my sociology class, but the way alot of white gay people use the word 'Straight', 'Heterosexual' and 'Homophobic' against people of colour is racially charged.
Ok, so let me explain what I mean.
When they use the word "straight" they're not actually referring to a sexual identity. You could be the gayest person in the world and they would still call you straight because they're using it as a way to label us a 'racial other'.
And so, this is something that happens to alot of queer people of colour on this app, myself included. Whenever we talk about racism in LGBT+ spaces we're immedately labelled as 'homophobic'. Like, not even internalized 'homophobia', which is not true but I digress.
Because what they're doing is they're portaying us as outsiders that are directing an attack towards them as a commuinity. And it also reveals that they think whiteness is essential to queerness.
So like rather than trying to address the fact they're racist, they would rather erase our queerness in order to uphold white superemacy./END TRANSCRIPT]
Anonymous asked:
So where do Jewish people fall on your POC/white passing chart? Cause sure, Jewish people are "white passing" but they're hardly "white privileged".
The whole American concept of race and ethnicity is pretty skewed.
I never said that Jewish people don't deserve reparations. I never even said that white-passing folks don't deserve reparations.
I will say though that white passing folks need to acknowledge their privilege that comes with being white passing, as this is a privilege that non-white passing folks never have. I personally feel that white-passing discourse takes up a lot of space. I'm not saying that white-passing folks shouldn't ever share their experiences of racism. I'm probably saying that they should consider just sharing their experiences with RACISM and not their experiences of being white passing. Because white passing-ness is not something that non-white passing poc can relate to.
I am also tired of anons demanding free education from me. I haven't given much thought to white passing discourse until recently with these death threats. I don't relate to white passing-ness, I can't fathom what it's like to pass as white. I don't care.
If someone is white passing/representing, they benefit from white privilege. That doesn’t mean that anti-Semitism doesn’t exist. These things are not mutually exclusive.
Also, Idk anon bc... anon. But if the only time you bring up your Jewishness in fandom is to deflect or derail when ppl are addressing the bigotry non-white passing ppl face, yeahhh
I also take issue with anon saying "Jewish people are white passing" because non-white passing poc who are Jewish exist, and definitely face more racism than white passing Jewish folks.
Which further lends credence to viewing anon’s question “in good faith” - as they say. Feels like derailing.
Also, the reference to the “American concept of race and ethnicity” is a tell. Yes, America-centricness can be an issue. But often ppl who want to deny anti-blackness suggest that those who call it out are America-centric. As if anti-blackness isn’t a global issue.
Anonymous asked:
So where do Jewish people fall on your POC/white passing chart? Cause sure, Jewish people are "white passing" but they're hardly "white privileged".
The whole American concept of race and ethnicity is pretty skewed.
I never said that Jewish people don't deserve reparations. I never even said that white-passing folks don't deserve reparations.
I will say though that white passing folks need to acknowledge their privilege that comes with being white passing, as this is a privilege that non-white passing folks never have. I personally feel that white-passing discourse takes up a lot of space. I'm not saying that white-passing folks shouldn't ever share their experiences of racism. I'm probably saying that they should consider just sharing their experiences with RACISM and not their experiences of being white passing. Because white passing-ness is not something that non-white passing poc can relate to.
I am also tired of anons demanding free education from me. I haven't given much thought to white passing discourse until recently with these death threats. I don't relate to white passing-ness, I can't fathom what it's like to pass as white. I don't care.
If someone is white passing/representing, they benefit from white privilege. That doesn’t mean that anti-Semitism doesn’t exist. These things are not mutually exclusive.
Also, Idk anon bc... anon. But if the only time you bring up your Jewishness in fandom is to deflect or derail when ppl are addressing the bigotry non-white passing ppl face, yeahhh
In terms of the anti-censorship and letting people write what they want, you have to realize freedom of speech and freedom to produce content that you want goes both ways. If your content is going to be grossly racist or other forms of problematic and offensive, then people have the right to criticize and ridicule your work as they please.
If you are going to produce content that is outwardly racist and if you believe that’s you’re right, than people can treat you and your work accordingly. This seems to be a part/understanding often left out. You can’t complain about censorship and freedom of speech yet demand people ignore your work and have the nerve to get sensitive when your fandom experience is marred by people who are well within their rights to criticize and tear your work apart.
You can’t expect to write problematic content and be upset when people get upset, and when you are constantly dragged because of it. be realistic.
You want to be able to write what you want? Right? Without people censoring or blocking you? Right?
Then get ready for 100+ angry people commenting and sharing your work, because it is WELL within their rights to do so.
You have to be ready for the consequences.
You can’t expect to write and produce problematic stuff and get a slap on the wrist. These legions of people of color and assualt survivors, and just genuinely logical and sensible attacking you isn’t “purity” culture. It’s being a writer and being held accountable and responsible for what you put out there, and being mature and handling the appropriate backlash.
That’s just realism. The “anti-censorship” view is very, very narrowminded, because you all only look at it in terms of, “I can write what I want and no one can stop me”. You forget that you post your work on a public website and archive where people can see it and comment on it.
If you don’t want people being mean to you, maybe you shouldn’t post your stuff on a public website.
so the OTW does not provide an email where you can contact them, only a web form limited to 1000 characters, so I’m going to post the letter I wrote here and link them to it:
I am writing in response to this question and the OTW’s response from the 9/29 board meeting minutes:
This might be a little off-topic but I have to satisfy my curiosity. Is the board aware of the continuing public “pressure” being exerted by outside groups who want the OTW to implement changes to Ao3 that could result in unfavorable changes for creators? […] Sure, there’s been a troubling amount of talk (and maybe it’s just all talk) on outside social media sites (It’s Twitter, it’s always Twitter) of groups that want to pressure the OTW to implement censorship guidelines for Ao3. Is that even on your radar?
This is a perennial pressure for the Organization for Transformative Works, but the AO3 was founded to protect inclusivity of content and we remain committed to that mission.
(It can be found here. I have a screenshot if they delete it.)
It is sickening to me that not only did the board not push back on the wildly inaccurate framing of “BIPOC fans criticizing AO3’s racism and calling for immediate meaningful action” as “outside groups” calling for “censorship guidelines”–rather than fans who have been reading and posting to AO3 since its inception, which is what they actually are (and also white allies, also longtime AO3 users, with the same criticisms)–not only did the board not correct this false and racist framing, it implicitly endorsed it.
You have made a very clear statement to BIPOC users of AO3: you are not part of our community, you are not one of us, and we don’t want you here. This is utterly unacceptable. I used to donate to the OTW every single year, but I haven’t since 2019 because of this exact kind of behavior and refusal to take action against racism–but even with the OTW’s lengthy track record of failing to address BIPOC fans’ needs and concerns about the rampant racist harassment that gets ignored by the abuse team and pro-Nazi/slavery/genocide trolling fic that gets posted with the deliberate intent of making fandom hostile for BIPOC–even despite your long record of alternating total inaction with brief lip service, I was genuinely shocked to see the board actively affirm that it considers BIPOC fans an “outside group.” (Not to mention affirming that it sees requests for such things as, say, actually responding to reports of racist harassment, or providing a built-in user blocking tool, as “censorship.”)
If the OTW has even the slightest genuine intention of becoming a less racist organization and working to repair the harm it has done and continues to do, it is imperative that everyone in a leadership position read this thread on how to start fixing the internal culture and this thread on how to start meaningfully addressing the concerns of BIPOC users (and again, there are MANY white allies who feel strongly about this, lest you think all white fans side with you, but BIPOC must be centered in every step of the process).
It is imperative that the OTW spend money on hiring consultants trained to lead this kind of work, and on compensating BIPOC fans for their input. It is imperative that the OTW listen and act accordingly to the feedback they receive. It is imperative that any OTW leadership who refuse to take meaningful immediate action against racism in the way that professional consultants and BIPOC fans decide they should be kicked out of the organization before they can do any further harm. Until these things are done, the OTW will remain an actively white supremacist organization that is apparently quite happy to be one.
—-
(FYI, I’m white, so if there’s a post responding to these meeting minutes by a BIPOC fan please let me know so I can boost it!)
(And no, I don’t think this is about antishippers/purity police who claim AO3 is a den of pedophilia, because no one outside the puriteen circle seriously thinks the AO3 is in danger of giving in to them. not to mention that antishippers and people criticizing racism are widely conflated, which is a problem in itself.)