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Drawing with Dinosaurs

@drawingwithdinosaurs / drawingwithdinosaurs.tumblr.com

Drawing Dinosaurs 2: The Drawening.As you can guess, I draw dinosaurs and the like, and consequently my blog is full of that sort of schtick.I am a simple man of simple foibles.

A Triassic Weirdo is any organism or group of organisms that first appeared in the Triassic and last appeared in the Triassic, with no descendants reaching the Jurassic. As this period was preceded by a major mass extinction, and followed by a major mass extinction, this leads to a *lot* of very unique organisms for the time period.

Kannemeyeriiformes are my babies, but for the title of weirdest I can't not give it to allokotosaurs.

For every other group on this list, you can at least tell that their members are related. Can't do that with allokotosaurs. Sure, they're united by a few details of the skeleton, but on surface they just refused to commit to a theme (beyond just being weird). It's even in the name, "strange reptiles"!

Retro-sauropod looking herbivore, with or without horns? Sure.

(Art: Matt Celeskey)

(Art: Gabriel Ugueto)

Climbing snub-faced lizard with a beak? Alright.

The above but with its face stretched out like an anteater? Okay.

(From Sues, 2003)

And let's not start on what they did to their teeth.

Including the ones on the roof of their mouths:

All those teeth on the roof of the mouth are shaped like the ones along the edge, btw. Try not to think about having those in your own mouth.

Oh yeah these might be allokotosaurs too. Go figure:

(Art: Nobu Tamura)

further explanation on the ammonite thing: there's an ethnic group FREQUENTLY mentioned in the Torah called the Ammonites and Max and I will never stop picturing them as just, floating-in-midair extaint sapient Ammonites that constantly get into conflict with the Israelites,

Gotta go for Ornithischia and Saurischia, because if there's one thing on this list that trips people up AND is given undue weight in both its literal translations and perceived taxonomic significance it's those two.

"Dinosaurs" is just perfect as is, couldn't give them a better sounding name if we tried, and I honestly don't mind the misnomers. Sinking "Dracorex hogwartsia" into the depths of synonymy feels just as is, and I don't really mind letting Dinosaurus go to a therapsid because we'd never agree on what dinosaur should have it. But things would be so much easier if we weren't stuck with Saurischia and Ornithischia.

Dinosauria doesn't have to be seen as divided into a clear dichotomy! The differences present at the beginning would have been extremely minor! The hip thing doesn't mean squat!

Hello everyone 👋 After feeling the mortality of my online presence, I decided to place my 5th soul jars here. My stuff will be primarily be paleoart, ASOIAF fan arts (dragons mostly) and random fantasy bits.

Soooo I have some exciting news!!!!

A couple months ago, I submitted an entry to the Waterhouse Natural Sciences Art Prize, a pretty fancy art contest hosted by the South Australian Museum. This was the piece I submitted, a papercraft lightbox entitled “An Outback of Ice and Sea”, and it’s taken a good month of my life getting it all together!

And I am very excited to announce that I have been selected as a finalist! Any of y’all who are in South Australia, you’ll be able to come and see my work (and a whole bunch of others’) on display at the SA Museum from the 4th of June to the 7th of August!

This piece is a scientific recreation of the Bulldog Shale formation, an opal-rich fossil locality in the desert of my home state of South Australia. 110 million years ago, this place wasn’t a desert, but an icy inland sea near the South Pole that was brimming with life! Every animal species in this artwork is based on fossil evidence from the region, down to the crinoids and brittle stars and bivalves!

The star of the piece is Umoonasaurus demoscyllus, a small plesiosaur with crests on its head that was local to this area. The Umoonasaurus is pursuing Ptyktoptychion eyrensis, a giant relative of modern-day ratfish while belemnites and ammonites bod in and out of the seaweed. And overhead amongst the icebergs, the giant pliosaur Kronosaurus queenslandicus looms.

I’m so proud of this piece as something that I’ve poured hours of love and research into, and I’m so thrilled to have been selected to be a part of this exhibition! The details on the museum website are here if anyone’s curious, please do let me know if you got a chance to see the exhibition in person!

CollectA Edaphosaurus Repaint

Thanks so much to those of you who enjoyed my Edaphosaurus colour brainstorming drafts, I loved reading the tags on that one! And here’s the final painted version, with colour pattern number 2 from the first post!

This was so much fun to paint, moving from big splotches of colour to refine it down to more and more detail. I also layered on washes and drybrushing to pick out the beautiful wrinkly skin detail of the original sculpt. 

I’m still pretty new to this and I think my paint application is a little too thick? Some of that lovely detail got obscured which is a shame, but overall I’m just so happy with this paint job!

Anyway yeah this is my new guy, hope y’all like him!

Hey, I'm struggling to find a consensus on ankylosaurid hindlimb digits. Specifically pinnacosaurus. Did it have 3 or 4?

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The foot of most ankylosaurids is undocumented, however you’re in luck as the complete foot of Pinacosaurus has been discovered and described by Currie et al. in 2011.

They confirm that the foot of Pinacosaurus only has three toes (digits 2, 3, and 4), having lost the first toe. The claim of four toes in Pinacosaurus has been put forward and repeated in previous publications, although in the words of Currie and colleagues:

“The four-digit hypothesis was primarily based on a specimen with a damaged left foot (ZPAL MgD-II/9) that appears to demonstrate four metatarsals, although it only has enough phalanges for three digits.” 

The newer specimens seem to confirm previous claims that they only had three toes, consistent with the only other documented ankylosaurid feet.

Image from Currie et al. (2011):

I’ve been seeing a lot of “by Talos this can’t be happening” jokes lately and sure could use a break from them.

Anonymous asked:

I am making a video about Lagerpetidae. Would it be OK for me to use an image you made of Lagerpeton for it provided I give credit?

If proper credit is given, sure.

Honestly the biggest disappointment I had researching ABC was that medieval authors did not, in fact, see the creatures they were describing and were trying their best to describe them with their limited knowledge while going “what the fuck… what the fuck…”

Instead all those creatures you know came about from transcription and translation errors from copying Greco-Roman sources (who themselves got them from travelers’ tales from Persia and India - rhino -> unicorn, tiger -> manticore, python -> dragon, and so on).

So unicorns are real

behold… a unicorn

I always thought animals in medieval manuscripts looked like the result of having to draw say. A Tree Kangaroo, but your only source for what it looked like was your friend who heard it from a fellow who knows a man who swears he saw one once, whilst very drunk and lost, and I am SO PLEASED  to find out this is, in fact, the case.

Questing Beast

- Neck of a snake

- body of a leopard

- haunches of a lion

- feet off a hart (deer)

So is it

Or….

don’t forget that some of the legendary creatures they were describing were from other people’s mythos which were passed down in the oral tradition for gods know how long. You know what existed in Eurasia right around the time we were domesticating wolves into dogs?

these beasties. For a long time, science had them down as going extinct 200 thousand years ago, but then we found some bones from 36 thousand years ago. Which, y’know, is quite a difference. Since you can bet that any skeleton we find is not literally the last one of its kind to live, many creatures have date ranges unknowably far outside the evidence.

In South Asia there were cultures that described a man-beast/troll forrest giant  who’s knuckles dragged the ground, and everybody from the west was sure it was superstitious mumbo jumbo, but you know what used to live there?

Image

And did you know that some of the earliest white colonizers of the Americas heard accounts that there were natives still alive who had seen and hunted and eaten a great hairy beast, shaggy like the buffalo but much bigger, with a long thin nose like a snake and two giant fangs… so, like, mammoths, you know? but they were totally discounted because europeans of the time were like, elephants live in Africa and aren’t hairy, you can’t fool us, pranksters!

Anyway, the point is between the early writing game of telephone description thing talked about by OP, and the discounting of native cultural accuracy, I’m pretty sure most legendary creatures are in fact real animals one way or another 

It can’t explain every single legendary creature, but yes, this is super important. Because History relies on written sources, it tends to sweep oral tradition under the rug, even if there’s a lot of interesting informations in it.

And it’s not just living animals that were badly described, or which descriptions got exaggerated over the course of centuries or through translation errors. Sometimes, people finding fossil bones of extinct animals might have also influenced some myths!

By now this is pretty well-known but it has been theorised that the Greek myth of the cyclops was started when people found Deinotherium skulls. Now you might say, uh, how is it possible to think a cousin of the elephant is a huge human dude with one eye?

Well-

- the big nasal opening kinda looks like an eye if you have no idea what kind of animal had this kind of skull (you can read more about this theory in this old National Geographic article if you like).

Here’s a less well-known one; the griffin is a mythological hybrid with the body of a lion and the head and wings of an eagle. The earliest traces of this myth come from ancient Iranian and ancient Egyptian art, from more than 3000 BC. In Iranian mythology, it’s called شیردال‌ (shirdal, “lion eagle”). Now, it’s been the subject of some debate and it’s not confirmed, but there’s a theory that people might have seen some Protoceratops and Psittacosaurus fossils in Asia and might have interpreted it as “a lion with an eagle’s head”:

This is a pretty well accepted theory for why dragons (or animals we group as like dragons, eg wyverns and drakes) are seen in mythos almost worldwide - because people found dinosaur bones, looked at them, and went “oh fuck what’s that? some big…. lizardy thing?” and then created dragons.

Also many deagon legends are simply exaggerations of well-known living reptiles like snakes and crocodilians.a

It also explains why dragons can look so different in the myths of the various regions.

In asia, Dragons tend to look very long and snake like:

One of the most common dinosaurs that used to like in the asia region, so would have been the most common fossils found by people:

The Mamenchisaurus, this thing is just all neck and tail! You find just half a fossilised skeleton of this monster, you can easily end up thinking of a long snake-like beast.

South America also has legends snake-like dragons among some of its peoples:

What fossils from pre-historic south America could be found?

The Titanoboa, which can easily grow to be 40 feet long.

In North America there is the Piasa Bird

Which wikipedia tells me comes from “ the large Mississippian culture city of Cahokia,” it’s describes as

What fossils could have been found in that region:

Pterosaur, and Triceratops. Features of both sets of skeletons could have been merged into one legendary creature.

Then we get our European style dragon:

One of the most common fossils that could have been found was a Cetiosaurus 

which, despite being a herbivore, looked to have a mouth of sharp looking teeth, consistant with a dragons.

Dragons amongst the peoples of Africa are even more varied, but most revolve around some kind of giant snake-like creature. As a quick example, we’ll take Dan Ayido Hwedo commonly found in West African mythology.

Fossils in that area could have been included the Aegyptosaurus:

A quick google search tells me that most Sauropods: well known for being long necked and long tailed, are found in Africa.

If you found only a half complete skeleton of this thing; which is likely, because it’s rare to find a complete dinosaur skeleton, you could easily think of a giant snake monster.

IIRC, another possible explanation for long snake-like dragons/sea serpents in Africa could’ve been Basilosaurus, a whale from the Paleogene whose skeleton looked like this: 

A lot of the most complete specimens have been found in Egypt. 

You know what, I’m tired of getting notifications for this post and not saying anything about it. I know that last time I complained about this sort of thinking, I got called out by revretch, who called me a gatekeeper and then blocked me. But I don’t have anything left to live for anymore so I’m going to let my science and education background take over for a moment and discuss this in depth.

Okay, not in depth, I’ll try to be brief.

Yes, I know tumblr likes to believe scientists are silly old fools for refusing to accept the truth that is right in front of them. Fine. Believe in what you want. But the problem is that a lot of the information in the above post is either long discredited, not taken seriously by archaeologists/folklorists for good reason, or

Animals have inspired a lot of mythical creatures. That is true.

Fossils have inspired a few mythical creatures. That is also true.

Fossils have not inspired the creatures in the above post. Not provably, at any rate, and certainly not enough for any self-respecting archaeologist to take them seriously.

Why not?

There’s a popular misconception about how fossils are formed. People tend to think they look something like in Jurassic Park 3, where a Velociraptor is being excavated in Montana (that already makes it impossible, but bear with me).

Look how nice that fossil is. It looks exactly like an animal. You can see the head, the shape of the body, the arms and legs and tail. You easily picture what it looked like alive.

This is NOT what fossils look like.

Real fossils tend to be disarticulated. Broken up. Spread over a large area. Believe me, I know! I’m a paleontology washout who’s volunteered on at least 3 digs in 3 different countries! The only information an average person could get out of most real fossils is “this was an animal”, and “this was a BIG animal”. Nobody would have deduced frills and wings and stuff like that.

The griffon hypothesis up there? We owe it to Adrienne Mayor, and it’s popular among paleontologists but not archaeologists. It makes sense on a very superficial level – It Stands To Reason, after all – but once you start looking at it in detail it breaks down. Even if, somehow, someone saw a Protoceratops skeleton in enough detail to see wings and beaks and stuff, why would they leave out the teeth? The stubby-toed feet? The ridiculous tail? Mark Witton, a person actually connected to paleontology, has done a great article on the subject.

Griffons were inspired by a number of things, including Mesopotamian royal art, and there’s at least one real animal behind the griffon (and it’s not a fossil). But that’s another story.

What about elephant-skull cyclopes? Again, it sounds like it makes sense! Certainly more so than the griffon-Protoceratops. But here we run into another problem… complete lack of proof. It sounds reasonable, but it can’t be proven. And “one-eyed giant” isn’t exactly a colossal feat of imagination - giants are one of the standard baddies in legend, and making them one-eyed makes them just more monstrous. You can just as easily argue that cyclopes originated in solar wheel imagery associated with the gods, which is why their name means “wheel-eye” and not “one-eye”, and that also ties nicely into their association with metallurgy. Again, Mark Witton has more on that.

Creatures LEGITIMATELY based on fossils typically look nothing like their progenitors, and tend to incorporate features based on their fossil location.

Mammoth remains, for instance! Those are found sticking out of eroded riverbanks, so there must have been a big animal underground! In China they are the yin shu, an enormous mouse or mole that digs underground but dies as soon as the sun touches it. (My interpretation below. Note that I couldn’t resist making it mammothy anyway)

In Siberia the witkes is a horned lake monster that demands offerings of the people who cross its water. Note that the “tusks” are seen as horns, and because the fossils are found near water, it becomes a water animal. See how the facts of the fossils become part of the legend? (Again, my interpretation below, and same comment as before)

The lindwurm of Klagenfurt was based on the discovery of a cave rhinoceros skull. Again, you can see how little the creature has to do with the fossil! People already have dragons on the brain, so finding a skull reinforces that, instead of altering it. You’ve got crocodile skulls in castles in Hungary displayed as dragon remains. Same story. Everything’s a dragon if you want it to be.

Brontotheres (thunder beasts) are named so because of the legends of the Great Plains people! Their remains were seen as the casualties of great battles, and the name honors that legend. Again, they aren’t described as being big rhino-like horned animals, just as… big animals that are now dead.

As for the others, again, those are incredible speculations that require, once again, to dismiss far more obvious things that would have inspired them. And there’s a whole lot of cultural evolution that goes on that isn’t taken into account.

The unicorn in particular. There’s no reason to think that it was anything other than the one-horned Indian rhinoceros. Elasmotherium tends to get dragged into the discussion, but all the original unicorn stories tell of a one-horned Indian monster. Not something that lives underground.

The Piasa? The above post compares it to pterosaurs, but the original did not have wings! It was a version of the “underwater panther”, a mythical underwater lynx of the Northeast Woodlands and Great Lakes regions. There’s a long story behind that but that’s, again, beyond the scope of what I wanted to say.

Of course, if you want to consider the underwater panther a dinosaur as well, be my guest.

Regarding the sauropods (and Titanoboa, and whales) inspiring giant snakes thing.

If only there was some terrifyingly large, reptilian, legless, snake-like creature in South America…

Or Africa…

Or Asia to fire people’s imagination and cause them to think of giant snakes?

And it’s not like rainbows aren’t associated worldwide with snakes because of their, well, long and thin and curvy nature.

Now if you think I’m a big horrible gatekeeping meanie for saying all this, that’s fine! There’s still a lot we don’t know, and there’s still a lot of things that could very well be based on fossils, so you can keep your hopes up!

Like the ketos of Troy, for instance!

That… looks awfully like it could be a skull! Adrienne Mayor thinks it’s a fossil Samotherium, which sounds like a stretch. It looks more like a pterosaur to me. But still, that’s something that could indeed be a fossil!

The other thing about all this is the “scientists didn’t listen to native people who told them about monsters they’d encountered”. And yes, this is true and a noble thing to believe in. But also consider that one of the reasons dinosaurs were believed to exist in “darkest Africa” (all the scare quotes) is that it was held that native people couldn’t possibly be creative enough to imagine them. Europeans talk about giant reptiles? Myths, legends, folklore. Non-Europeans talk about giant reptiles? OMG LIVING DINOSAURS. It goes both ways, sadly.

Mythical creatures are the product of culture, literature, and biology. Reducing their creation to “sees weird fossil => invents monster” is, to me, just sad, and cuts out a lot of the process and wonder and translation errors and sheer mistakes that intervene.

The field of geology can unlock a deep Dread in a similar way that the spaces between stars or the depths of the ocean can, something existential and primordial.

I have learned about the moving and colliding and buckling of tectonic plates beneath the Earth’s surface, how the crust is miles thick and the heat increases with every kilometer closer to the core. The forces it would take to push mountains miles into the sky and melt and compress rock and force continents to bend and break? How impossibly heavy a mile of stone must be?

Best not to think about it. You will never be crushed by a mile of stone, or warped and metamorphosed by the heat and pressure in the depths of the earth, or anything like that.

Well.

I mean. Perhaps you will be after you are dead, if you turn into a fossil. Lots of things that were once alive and breathing are now trapped so deep in the earth we will never find them, and they will never be exposed to light again.

...Just don’t worry about it.

Geologic time, too, is crushing. The Grand Canyon forms a cross-section of millions of years of geologic history. Near the bottom, there is a layer of rock from the Cambrian period, the Tapeats Sandstone—about 500 million years old, and 230 feet thick. Good? Okay. Below that, a body of impossibly old rock called the Vishnu Schist, which is hundreds of millions of years older, from the Precambrian era.

(Why? Well, there’s a gap in the record called the Great Unconformity, which represents hundreds of millions of years of geologic history just straight up fucking gone. We don’t know why. Maybe don’t think about that either.)

Rocks from the Precambrian era are rarely exposed to the surface, which is why fossils from then are so rare—and when we find fossils, they are of living things so alien, we have no words for them. Some of the Precambrian fossils are always being slowly, inexorably annihilated in the earth’s molten mantle, pressed down and forced underneath continents to meet a death beyond death.

But I don’t know what chills me more—the thought of those Precambrian fossils, records of living creatures so unlike us we cannot name them, slowly being subducted into the mantle, pushed underneath miles of stone into ever-increasing heat and pressure until they are erased forever from existence, or the thought—the reality—that they are simply...still down there. Deep, deep beneath us, locked in a primordial tomb that we cannot reach because it is just...too...deep.

We can find the imprints of microscopic organisms in stone that tell us that they lived, but being pushed underneath the earth and melted into magma? That’s truly irretrievable annihilation. And it happens all the time.

I’m just saying. There’s a reason people thought hell lay deep beneath the earth.

Anonymous asked:

Apologies, i am the previous anon and had gotten it into my head that theropods only included carnivores, a mistake on my part. To rephrase the question I just wanted to know if bipeds outside of theropods were capable of moving their femur in a wider angle than the 90 degree angle that theropods are known to be restricted to. Hoping I phrased that right

The ‘90-degree rule’ isn’t unique to just theropods, it seems to be present in most major dinosaur groups, including some of the quadrupeds and not just the bipeds. The “rule” is based on dinosaurs having an expanded area of bone on the back of the hip socket called an antitrochanter. This bit of bone is a muscle attachment, and it also articulates with the femur in such a way that trying to pull the femur back past a vertical position would dislocate it from the antitrochanter. 

The only dinosaurs that have reduced or absent antitrochanters—and so swing their femur’s back past vertical—are sauropods and derived stegosaurs. Similarly, sauropods and stegosaurs are also the only dinosaurs that have knee joints that let them completely straighten out their legs. Both of these features are probably associated with their column-like hind legs. This means that other dinosaurs would have always had their leg joints flexed to varying degrees (unless they were injured and, well, dislocated).

Admittedly, this information mostly comes from a guide to restoring dinosaurs published by Greg Paul in 1987 and so it has the potential to be dated. However, I’ve never seen anyone argue against these claims, and professional illustrators still adhere to them, so they seem to hold up today. At the same time, I’ve never been able to find any clear biomechanical explanation for why they have this feature either, although I suppose that’s less important for artist’s to know why the range of motion is limited than just knowing it’s limited in the first place.