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confuzhjon

@confuzhion

In honour of the sequel announcement…..

Wants for 2 Old 2 Guard:

  • Andy teaching Nile how to use the axe and other mentorship moments between the two of them
  • Andy/Quynh having a reunion that is not just misery and pain, let our ladies have some softness too
  • Andy/Quynh kiss
  • Well-thought out Booker redemption arc
  • Some Andy/Booker hints in the vein of what’s in the original screenplay and the comics where people are like “so….you guys?” and Booker never answers the question
  • Copley being really excited about getting to work with them cause he’s like a groupie with his special board of evidence
  • Happy JoeNicky flashbacks (I especially want to see one of the many times I’m sure they’ve gotten married over the years)
  • Joe-centric scenes
  • Openly bisexual/pansexual characters (Andy! Nile! Booker! Joe! Copley! Anyone! I’m not picky here)
  • Flashbacks of the Guard as children. Just, all of the baby! Guard. All of it.
  • They have to dress up fancy for mission reasons.
  • Booker gets therapy. And also gets to eat at a restaurant.
  • Nile gets to go see her family and they accept her
  • Nile gets to give the signal

Do not wants for 2 Old 2 Guard:

  • Murder nuns
  • People forgetting about Joe like they did in the comics
  • Any flashbacks that involve Nicky and Joe not talking for six years
  • The end of Force Multiplied
  • Andy dying. Just…no

Marwan Kenzari and Joe’s Anger

I noticed while reading that in The Old Guard screenplay it says a few different times that Joe “roars” or “growls” -

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and a couple of people in fandom have addressed how shady that is, given that Joe is an Arab man and MENA men are so often stereotyped as aggressive or violent.

(Then there’s the fact that the original comic artist for the old guard, Leandro Fernandez, literally said, “ I’ve paid special attention to Joe’s eyes: even if his face has average Middle Eastern characteristic, I wanted his look to be almost scary,” which pretty much means it was intentional to make Joe’s depiction in the original comics a racial caricature.)

But we know from watching the film that Joe never actually growls or roars, right? There are numerous moments I can think of in which it would arguably have been appropriate for someone to express their anger with “roaring” or “growling” but Marwan Kenzari never does this. The only time he comes close, as @nicojoe​ pointed out to me, is when he picks up and bear hugs Andy as they reunite, and it’s an expression of affection - not anger. 

One of the times he could have “roared” or “growled” and didn’t that I can think of is when they’ve finished killing everyone on the kill floor. Joe spits out a bullet, and says, “Very pissed off.” The next, when he headbutts Merrick, and says, “There’s your balance, asshole.” Followed quickly by being stabbed multiple times with an envelope opener, to which he shakes it off, and says, “Goddamn it. Ugh. Shit.” Then of course, there’s, “You shot Nicky. You shouldn’t have done that,” to Keane, followed by breaking his neck. 

On each of these occasions, Marwan doesn’t yell. His voice is low, and reserved. His face is stern and still, which is exceptionally understated expression given the emotion he’s feeling, which is indisputably anger, or in the case of being stabbed, pain. 

I’m posting about this because I don’t think this fandom talks about Marwan’s acting choices enough. We have talked about Luca’s, I have talked about Luca’s, and have mentioned how impressive his choices were as well, but we haven’t talked about Marwan as much I don’t think, save of course for the van scene. In that scene, it would have also made sense for Joe to have been angry, but it’s obvious from watching the scene that what Joe is really feeling is overwhelming devotion to Nicky, and possibly, some worry that Nicky will be disheartened by the words of the homophobic men in the van. Joe is also unimpressed, and annoyed, and indignant, but these emotions all get set aside in favor of expressing that devotion to Nicky. And yes, Marwan’s acting in that scene is breathtaking - but I think…it was supposed to be. I think Marwan read the scene and knew what was expected of him and he did what was expected of him exceptionally well but - it was still what was expected of him.

But as for the scenes in which Marwan was expected to “roar” or “growl” Marwan specifically made the choice not to do that. He purposefully chose an understated expression of anger, keeping his voice low and even, his face almost expressionless, and every time he chose to do that the scene was more poignant for it. Instead of getting a loud, temperamental man who yells all the time, we get, well….

I think we get exactly what Joe would be if he were real. Joe has been alive for centuries. Centuries of conflict, centuries of putting up with ignorant people, centuries of getting killed by people who have less life experience than him, less knowledge of the world, and are, in his eyes, exactly as he says, children. After a while that anger would exhaust you. Not to mention you’d learn to manage your emotions more the older you got. When people are angry, yelling doesn’t help. Throwing a tantrum doesn’t help. It’s a waste of time and breath, something that someone almost a thousand years old would have learned and gotten over. It is also letting your emotions get the best of you, something someone that old just wouldn’t let happen. 

So for Marwan to choose to express Joe’s anger this way, not only avoids the racial stereotype, but it’s always more poignant and it always characterizes Joe in a more realistic and meaningful way. It’s extremely impressive to me. The more I think about it the more I’m blown away. 

But there’s one exception, isn’t there? In the lab, when Joe learns of Booker’s betrayal. That is the only time we see Joe express his anger by raising his voice, not to mention his gestures are wilder, closer to aggressive or temperamental, and his face looks properly angry. Marwan specifically chose to make this scene the exception because it doesn’t remotely resemble any of the other times Joe got angry.

I love purposeful contradictions in writing. In one of my writing classes, my teacher said to me, “Strive to make characters who are 90% one thing, and 10% the opposite. People in real life aren’t 100% anything 100% of the time, and your character will feel more believable.” So, I love it for that alone that Joe contradicts himself here, that Marwan chose to create a contradiction here. But more than that, I love that he chose this scene to contradict his other portrayals of Joe’s anger. Because, this anger is different, isn’t it? It’s personal, it’s a betrayal, it doesn’t just make him angry it hurts him. Booker is his family, he trusted Booker. This isn’t a random CIA agent setting them up, or a Pharma CEO treating him like a lab rat, or a hired body guard shooting Nicky - 

Which, sure, I can see someone arguing, “But that’s also personal, that also hurts,” and I see that, but…it’s not really the same. Nicky is nobody to Keane, and Keane is nobody to Nicky. Containing Nicky is Keane’s current job, and the fact that he shoots Nicky isn’t really all that different than anyone killing Nicky any of the other thousands of times Joe has witnessed Nicky die. Yes, that’s the love of his life, but…random people kill the love of his life all the time. That’s why I think it’s no different than the other times Joe is angry. 

But the lab is different, and Marwan made sure we knew it was. He purposefully made this the one point in the film in which we see Joe’s emotions get the best of him. The one time Joe is saying things without thinking, yelling, flailing, throwing insults and curses around. Had this been the case all those other times Joe is angry, it wouldn’t have stood out to us or indicated anything important, but because it is the exception we notice it and we know it’s important. As a result, we get insight into this character that we didn’t have before, which is the entire point of fiction. We know now what it takes to make a character who is normally calm and controlled when he is angry go absolutely feral. 

It is…so fucking smart you guys. We are so fucking lucky Marwan Kenzari got this role. He isn’t just talented. The van scene - that’s talent. But he also knows what he’s doing. He also cares about his craft. He puts real thought into the portrayal of the characters he plays, and the decisions he makes based on his interpretation are genius. The rest of Marwan’s portrayal of Joe isn’t just talent, but genius. 

I wanted this to just be a Marwan Kenzari appreciation post, but now that I’m here, I can’t leave it at this. The fandom’s assistance that Joe is actually an angry or temperamental man because of the one instance in the movie Joe let’s his emotions control him for once has got to stop. Marwan purposefully portrayed Joe as a man who is calm and controlled when he is angry, and purposefully created one exception and that exception was due to an emotion much more complex than ordinary anger which is betrayal. Ordinarily, Joe wouldn’t react like that when he’s angry, and the rest of the film is proof. 

We should all take this into consideration next time we’re hypothesizing how Yusuf Al-Kaysani would react to minor, every day conflicts that make him angry. It takes a lot to make Joe actually show his anger because he is not an angry, hot-headed, short-fused, temperamental man who can’t control his emotions. He wants to see the best in people, to reason with them, to defuse the situation, and if that’s not an option, he wants to get his point across and move the fuck on, like he did with Keane. 

What's amazing about The Old Guard is the love between every immortal character, not just Joe and Nicky

She cups the back of his head when she pulls away, nothing romantic about it, but you can clearly see how much she cares about him through that simple gesture. Nicky responds in kind by meeting her eyes when they pull away as a silent reassurance that he's okay

The same with Joe. Andy lets herself be pcked up and spun around, she lets her guard down and laughs. Andy is genuinely happy and carefree in this moment. They haven't seen each other in years and they still manage to let their guard down around each other, the trust and love between them is so clear

And when you've seen the movie this scene is heartbreaking. It can be read as platonic or romantic, but what's most important is that she didn't know if he was going to come back. Andy had already lost someone to wounds similar to Booker's and she couldn't lose anyone else. Andy loves everyone in her team so much that if she lost anyone else it would break her

Nile is the newest but that same motherly gesture of Andy cupping the back of her neck and the smild she has is showing the pride and love that Andy has for her. Nile came back and saved them, and Andy loves her for that. She loves the people on her team in such subtle ways, and to see it shown this way in such a mainstream way is amazing. It shows that not every love is the same and love doesn't have to be romantic.

The Old Guard is different from other comic book movies because it has romantic love that isn't the main focus of the movie and it also showcases how intimate platonic love can be.

im so torn on the mcu cause on one hand, yay we're finally getting representation! but then again, the fact that it's taken the mcu this long to have a diverse cast with poc and lgbt characters as leads, and the fact that they've already erased the sexuality of characters and whitewashed them in the past just goes to show that it's all so performative

I wouldn’t mind more Marvel movies but here’s the thing: they can’t be white dudes.

There have been 22 movies. Only two of those movies do not focus on white dudes: Black Panther and Captain Marvel. I can’t sit through anymore generic white dude superhero movies. I’m done. I want something new. I want women, I want people of color, I want queer heroes. Give us more than just the same old, same old.

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Thinking about how joe looks at andy with the most 🥺 expression ever when she tells him to stop yelling at the lab. Thinking about joe’s exhausion and sadness when he sees that andy is mortal. Thinking about joe touching andy’s back gently, guiding her up the stairs. Thinking about how Joe looks to andy for reassurance during the lab fight (the little exchange of looks and nods they have at the door). Thinking about how andy clearly taught him the headbutt move. Thinking about ”she’s not asking”. Thinking about the spin hug & ”you look great”/”you look okay”. Thinking about ”you missed us” /” I did”. Thinking about how I need more andy&joe big sister little brother content actually

Reblogging because my eye caught something interesting in the first gif. Tony is using ‘repulsor hand’ gesture there. Which is different from a bog-standard ‘stop’ hand gesture. His fingers are more separated, curved. The thumb’s more forward. Sort of a little relaxed looking, outside of the suit, because the bulk of the suit prevents straighter, closer fingers and the flatter palm-profile.

Reason Number 10,563 why I love RDJ and his portrayal of Tony Stark. Because by this point, Tony’s been using the suit - using THAT GESTURE *how* many times? Of *course* his out-of-suit body language would echo what he does in the suit by now.

terfs mistaking cis jewish women for trans women bc of facial hair is so.. huh.. like that really says something doesnt it. terf ideology is on such shaky foundations in literally all aspects so its not surprising that terfs would attack cis women who dont fit their idea of womanhood & bc they think trans women all look a certain way where theyll be able to identify them but that case specifically is particularly funny/horrible. especially bc like jewish women/jewish mothers being viewed as masculine is a longstanding stereotype thats been employed by nazis and reactionaries 🤔

I’ve seen actual nazi “how to spot a jew” propaganda rebranded as “how to spot a trans woman” spread around by terfs and it’s fucking mortifying

I love the absolute lack of evidence bc this is blatant lies 💕💕 so sorry to all my Jewish radfems out there accused of being nazis

alright! let’s see the evidence, then, shall we? redkatherine’s art is hard to find, but i DO know an example that’s clear as fucking day.

first, let’s look at the antiseminist propaganda:

large noses, overweight or wiry, hooded eyes, unibrows, balding, sideburns.

now let’s look at a depiction of trans women by a terf:

would you fucking look at that.

😬

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marvel dudebros: girls only watch marvel movies for the hot shirtless men

why girls acually watch marvel movies: