“I read several dozen stories a year from miserable, lonely guys who insist that women won't come near them despite the fact that they are just the nicest guys in the world. ..I'm asking what do you offer? Are you smart? Funny? Interesting? Talented? Ambitious? Creative? OK, now what do you do to demonstrate those attributes to the world? Don't say that you're a nice guy -- that's the bare minimum. "Well, I'm not sexist or racist or greedy or shallow or abusive! Not like those other douchebags!" I'm sorry, I know that this is hard to hear, but if all you can do is list a bunch of faults you don't have, then back the fuck away.. ..Don't complain about how girls fall for jerks; they fall for those jerks because those jerks have other things they can offer. "But I'm a great listener!" Are you? Because you're willing to sit quietly in exchange for the chance to be in the proximity of a pretty girl (and spend every second imagining how soft her skin must be)? Well guess what, there's another guy in her life who also knows how to do that, and he can play the guitar. Saying that you're a nice guy is like a restaurant whose only selling point is that the food doesn't make you sick. You're like a new movie whose title is This Movie Is in English, and its tagline is "The actors are clearly visible".”—David Wong, 6 Harsh Truths That Will Make You a Better Person
“Why is the term "friend zone" so popular when the term "unrequited love" already exists and is more accurate? I suspect it's because it shifts the locus of responsibility. "Unrequited love" focuses on the person who has the crush. The feelings being discussed are the crushing person's, thus the responsibility in on them to get over their crush and move on. "Friend zone", on the other hand, focuses on the crush object's choices. The phrase erases the agency of the crushing person. All blame for their pain is put on the crush object. "Unrequited love" is something that can happen to both sexes, but "friend zone" is a sexist concept that implies that women are solely responsible for men's happiness, and not men themselves.”—Amanda Marcotte’s post on Feminism | Latest updates on Sulia
Why Do Men Keep Putting Me in the Girlfriend-Zone?
You know how it is, right, ladies? You know a guy for a while. You hang out with him. You do fun things with him—play video games, watch movies, go hiking, go to concerts. You invite him to your parties. You listen to his problems. You do all this because you think he wants to be your friend.
But then, then comes the fateful moment where you find out that all this time, he’s only seen you as a potential girlfriend. And then if you turn him down, he may never speak to you again. This has happened to me time after time: I hit it off with a guy, and, for all that I’ve been burned in the past, I start to think that this one might actually care about me as a person. And then he asks me on a date.
I tell him how much I enjoy his company, how much I value his friendship. I tell him that I really want to be his friend and to continue hanging out with him and talking about our favorite books or exploring new restaurants or making fun of avant-garde theatre productions. But he rejects me. He doesn’t answer my calls or e-mails; if we’d been making plans to do something before this fateful incident, these plans mysteriously fail to materialize. (This is why I never did get around to seeing the Hunger Games movie. Not to name any names, but thanks a lot, Tom.) Later, when I run into him at social events, our conversations are awkward and lukewarm. This is because the moment we met, he put me in the girlfriend-zone, and now he can’t see me as friend material.
I must say that I find this really unfair. I mean, I’m a nice girl. I have a lot to offer as a friend, like not being a douchebag and stuff. But males just don’t want to be friends with nice girls like me. They can’t help it, I guess; it’s just how they’re wired, biologically. Evolution conditioned our male hominid ancestors to seek nice girls as mates and form friendship bonds only with the other dudes that they hunted mammoths with. It’s true—I know this because I studied hominids in my fifth-grade science class.
So what’s the answer? Should I take up mammoth-hunting in an attempt to appeal to the friendship centers of men’s primal lizardbrains? Should I keep making guy “friends” and then prevent them from making a move on me by subtly undermining their self-confidence? Should I just give up on those manipulative, game-playing, two-faced bastards once and for all? I don’t know. I mean, I’d really like to have a true friendship with a guy someday, but it’s so hard to trust and respect them when they never say what they mean—and you never know when you might be relegated to the girlfriend-zone.
“When I asked a male friend of mine what he thought about Hard To Get, he told me: “Well, you know, there is a right and a wrong way to play Hard To Get.” “Enlighten me!” “It’s fine if she’s all Oh, I don’t know…I’ve been hurt before…let’s take it slow. But I hate when she lays it on too thick. Not just ‘hard’ to get—impossible to get!” “You mean, when she’s really saying No?” “Yeah! It really pisses me off. I’m a nice guy, so why does she have to be such a bitch?” My friend played by the rules, fought hard for a woman’s attention, and thus felt entitled to his “prize.” His reaction to being “cheated” was to label the woman who refused her consent a “bitch.” Were he to say this to her directly, it would be a verbal assault. Were he to forcefully push on to get what he felt he had “earned,” it would be rape.”—Rachel Kay Albers, Why I Never Play Hard To Get on Feminspire.com
you never hear a girl rejected by a guy say, “but i’m a nice person!”
not like all those cis white boiz whining, throwing out their deck of “nice guy” cards, wondering why the ladies aren’t amazed
when i was rejected in high school, this train of thought always rushed through my mind : “but aren’t i pretty and smart? aren’t i funny but sensible? aren’t i into video games and graphic novels? don’t my jeans fit right? aren’t i sensitive to others’ feelings? aren’t i sensual? aren’t i sexual? am i sexual enough? am i too sexual? isn’t my hair frizz-free? are my boobs big enough? is my stomach flat enough? am i interesting? …am i worthy?”
never once did younger me think “nice is enough”
“Not being a rapist should not be a symbol of being a hero; it should be the bare minimum for decent behavior. Refusing to sleep with someone who is too intoxicated to consent or who is being forced into sex because someone is threatening her does not make you a "good guy;" it just means that you pass one of the lowest bars for basic humane treatment. That these movies are using that act as some sort of shorthand for "hero" is troubling. It implies that these men are doing something extraordinary by resisting the urge (and often it is an urge that they have to resist, especially in the films where they end up having consensual sex with the women later) to rape or take advantage of these women. Ultimately, that narrative helps support the idea that avoiding rape is a difficult thing, something worthy of praise. The truth is that avoiding rape isn't hard. If you don't have consent, you don't have sex. If you're not sure that you have consent, you don't have sex. If you are unable to get consent because of the person's condition, you don't have sex. If you get consent and you don't want to have sex, you don't have sex.”—Balancing Jane: Sexual Consent in Pop Culture: Waiting for Consent Doesn’t Make You a Hero
For the so-called 'nice guys'.
- Justin: You done?
- Matt: No, no I'm not done. What's your problem?
- Justin: You really wanna believe you're this perfect guy, this victim, don't you? But you're not. And everytime you go off on this self pity rant, no one feels sorry for you. You just come off as clueless and ungrateful.
- Matt: Where is this coming from man? I thought you had my back.
- Justin: I do. And you're one of my best friends, which makes this whole situation worse. 'Cause the girl I like is also going for some jerk.
- Matt: That's what I've been saying man! You and me--
- Justin: It's you! You're the jerk I'm losing to.
- Matt: What? What're you talking about? How--
- Justin: Tammy. I like Tammy, okay? And I don't know how you haven't seen it. Even the whole team knows, but she's wanted to be with you for like, ever. Despite you completely ignoring her. You've been fixed on Anna this whole time, that you haven't noticed anything that Tammy's done for you... and now how much you've hurt her. And guess who's the nice friend that's had to be there for her this entire time?
“Society often treats women as if we are part of the marketplace, none too dissimilar from the latest model car or an expensive pair of designer sneakers. That we’re something or someone who can be had for a price – whether that price is actual currency or “niceness” treated like currency. It’s not that women don’t lament how the “hot” guy or the “rich” guy or whoever the “ideal” guy is is more fixated on looks and you’re too short/fat/plain/unsophisticated/whatever and he doesn’t see you. But the response is different. Men are supposed to have clear opinions on what they do and don’t want. Women are supposed to be passive actors who can be bought with stuffed animals and on-time child support payments. But if you’ve ever interacted romantically with a woman, you know this is not true. This idea that if you are “nice” to a woman – say hello, open a door, call her pretty – a man is entitled to time, attention, a phone number, a date, sex, whatever is woefully ridiculous as it presupposes women aren’t human beings, but products. That if you put in enough money or niceness tokens in them you can have the date you desire, but in no other part of your life this technique works. You don’t get the raise just for showing up at work every day. You don’t (or shouldn’t) try to buy friends. And friendship with someone of the opposite gender isn’t supposed to be a way station leading to friends-with-benefits-sex … unless that’s something you both want and agree upon. It’s not guaranteed.”—DANIELLE C. BELTON in Clutch magazine article, “Why A So-Called “Nice Guy” Isn’t All That Nice” [x]
“Prostitution affects other women, even women who’ve never accepted payment for sex once in their lives. Ever heard men say something along the lines of “all women are whores?” They damn well believe it, too. And that’s why men expect sex in return for giving women gifts, why they think that offering a woman they just met on the street the “right” amount of money will change her no into a yes, why they date rape women for whom they bought dinner as taking what was “owed” in return. The transactional model of sex is one of the cultural beliefs underlying the sexist phenomenon of nice guy syndrome that everyone on this site rightfully hates so much. “Nice guys” give women presents and flowers and kindness, and they’re genuinely bewildered—and angered—when the women don’t repay them with sex. Men believe all women have a certain price; when you find the “right one” you get the sex.”—