pentachoron replied to your post:For fuck’s sakes. If you don’t like the advice…

I find MM really interesting—it’s the highly obsessive cult-like attitudes of the people who follow it that makes me very uncomfortable. I think it ought to be investigated and addressed in more detail. Recovery isn’t a contest to eat the most.

It is interesting because often times the people who follow things become way more “cult-like” than the actual proponents and so then the arguments against it become straw men because of what gets passed around between the followers.

I’ve seen this happen so much w/r/t Maudsley/FBT as well. The things that some parents claim about it, for example, are much more “extreme” than what researchers like Lock and Le Grange (who are proponents of FBT for adolescents) would claim. 

It is interesting to observe. Not surprising, though.

I think it would be very interesting to test MM empirically, but that’s not going to happen any time soon. Le Grange said that the 2010 Archives of General Psychiatry paper testing the efficacy of FBT in adolescents cost a few million ($3 or $5 million, I don’t remember). 

The thing is, people should be critical. Always. But the critiques should be about the science and about the evidence. Not about “I don’t want to eat that much” or “how could anyone eat that much” or “Gwyneth is dumb” or something silly like that, or about the followers. It should be about the evidence presented. And when there’s as little evidence as there w/r/t anything treatment-wise concerning EDs, there’s a lot of room for valid disagreements. In my opinion, anyway. 

Beliefs of women concerning the severity and prevalence of bulimia nervosa.

lokahsamasta replied to your post:Beliefs of women concerning the severity and prevalence of bulimia nervosa.

i wonder what the vignettes looked like…obviously severity of symptoms and the language used to describe the “problem” would have a big impact on perceived prevalence. (like did they acknowledge it as an ED or was it “dieting”/”disordered eating”)

Absolutely! Wording has a HUGE effect. This is the vignette: 

"Kelly is a 19-year-old second-year arts student. Although mildly overweight as an adolescent, Kelly’s current weight is within the normal range for her age and height. However, she thinks she is overweight. Upon starting university, Kelly joined a fitness programme at the gym and also started running regularly. Through these efforts, she gradually began to lose weight. Kelly then started to “diet”, avoiding all fatty foods, not eating between meals, and trying to eat set portions of “healthy foods”, mainly fruit and vegetables and bread or rice, each day. Kelly also continued with the exercise programme, losing several more kilograms. However, she has found it difficult to maintain the weight loss and for the past 18 months her weight has been continually fluctuating, sometimes by as much as 5 kilograms within a few weeks. Kelly has also found it difficult to control her eating. While able to restrict her dietary intake during the day, at night she is often unable to stop eating, bingeing on, for example, a loaf of bread and several pieces of fruit. To counteract the effects of this bingeing, Kelly takes laxative tablets. On other occasions, she vomits after overeating. Because of her strict routines of eating and exercising, Kelly has become socially isolated."

ajax-daughter-of-telamon replied to your post:Beliefs of women concerning the severity and prevalence of bulimia nervosa.

what is the real prevalence? (Also, the belief that bulimia is so common might be attributable to Naomi Wolf and others like her … when I read “The Beauty Myth” it definitely gave the impression that a WHOLE lot of women have eating disorders.

Well, there’s no “real” prevalence because these things are notoriously tricky to study. It depends many, many factors, among them how you define bulimia. For example, it will artificially increase because the DSM-5, in comparison to DSM-IV, made it easier for someone to be diagnosed with bulimia nervosa… so watch out for reports of “increases” in bulimia nervosa that are just people moving from EDNOS to BN… and I mean who reports on EDNOS in the media…

Iwrote a post about prevalence a while ago (see hereHow Common Are Eating Disorders? Incidence, Prevalence and Mortality Rates) and the rates are about 1-2%. 

I also wrote about how much Naomi Wolf fucked up in “The Beauty Myth” here: Naomi Wolf Got Her Facts Wrong. Really, Really, Really Wrong. Casper Schoemaker (2004) paper is fucking hilarious, too.

skelephantom replied to your post:Beliefs of women concerning the severity and prevalence of bulimia nervosa.

This is what comes from too much ‘awareness’ without any real understanding. That seems especially high given the age range of the sample (rather than if it was say, just college students)

Yeah, I don’t know :/. The issue is that the vignette included SO MANY different things that it is like… okay, well, what behaviours are we talking about exactly, you know what I mean? Maybe the respondents are going “yeah, lots of people diet and exercise and overeat”?

I haven’t read the study in depth. Keep in mind, too, that it is over 10 years old. 

pentachoron replied to your post: Beliefs of women concerning the severi…

This cannot be right. No way would I think it acceptable/normal for someone to have the same symptoms I have. I would probably be less likely to judge/intervene/catastrophize on their behalf, though…

Perhaps, as lokahsamasta mentioned, the ridiculously sounding results are due to the vignette (see above), which frames the behaviours in a very dieting-centred manner (uguuughghgugh Fairburn *shakes fist*).

pentachoron replied to your post:Suicidal ideation in people with disabilities (including incurable and progressive disabilities) usually passes in the same 

I’m really wary of this entire topic (unintentionally) coming off as “some people have more legitimate reasons to kill themselves than others.” Slippery slope to “some people have more legitimate reasons to have mental illness.”

Yeah I understand completely, which is why I’d much rather discuss this in person where everyone could explain their thoughts without writing an essay. There are just so many facets of this issue. And, honestly, I don’t really know where I stand on the issues surrounding suicide, especially w/r/t the role others play in prevention. 

I think the problem with the legitimacy w/r/t suicide, like I alluded to in my post, is who gets to decide it is more or less legitimate — even if there are gradients of legitimacy or something. 

Should we, as a society, be trying to prevent suicide? If so, should we be trying to prevent it in everyone equally? How should we go about trying to prevent it? Is there a place for euthanasia? If so, when? How can we make sure that we are not imposing our own perspectives/feelings onto others when making those decisions (e.g., I wouldn’t want to live like that, therefore that person’s argument for suicide is “legitimate”)? A lot of people are opposed to euthanasia because of the slippery slope arguments (although that’s not the only reason). Is that a valid reason? 

pentachoron replied to your post:You know that feeling when you read something and…

Was just reading an abstract that compared bulimic’s intakes to recovered bulimic’s intakes and their conclusion was literally “the recovered ones eat more so they must be compensating in some other unhealthy way.”

lol! wtf.

Measuring calorie intake of ill BN patients is very difficult, especially if the method of compensating is self-induced vomiting. 

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