anonymous asked:

how do i deal with people who say stuff like "if you were a real feminist you'd be vegan because cows are raped to make milk for you"?

Oh buddy. This is something we always run into when we do internet activism, isn’t it?

So what I’m going to do is tell you the variety of ways I have responded to this. 

I get a fair amount of anon hate on my personal, or criticisms of the way I express my feminism, and this is one that I’ve gotten before. How I respond to it literally always depends on what my emotional resources are at the time I encounter the message. 

The first and most important thing to note is that we are not actually responsible for educating people. They are responsible for educating themselves. We have the option of offering information to them and helping them out along the way, but education will not happen unless they are open to it.

So let’s say I get that message, and I am exhausted from work and have been having flashbacks and haven’t eaten in 13 hours. 

I will sometimes just post the ask with *fart noises* in the reply. To me, a response that flippant is appropriate to the ridiculousness of such an ask. It offers me the opportunity to express frustration without getting pulled into a conversation that is going to further spend my emotional resources. (Other such options are “fuck you,” “gtfo,” “I literally do not give a shit what you have to say about anything,” etc.) You see what I’m going for here.

Another possibility…. when I have the energy, I will just honestly say, “Hey look, I understand you have poltics that include veganism, and that’s chill, but I need you to understand that making comparisons of that kind is extremely harmful to survivors. (At this point you can offer actual resources if you want to.) And (this part is important if you know them personally) as someone who is fairly close to me, I also want to tell you that your comment has hurt me personally, and I would really appreciate it if you would never say anything like that again.”

Yet another option is to elucidate exactly that false equvalencies of this sort are exactly that. There are dozens of pages that discuss false equivalencies like this and how they are actually ineffective arguments. (I usually add in something about how a discussion of veganism/animal rights is a different discussion than one of sexual violence, and when people make those comparisons, they actively dehumanize the individuals who have suffered sexual violence. 

And then of course there is the nuclear option. What is the nuclear option? The nuclear option is to use all the power of your beautiful brain to destroy militant veganism and show them exactly why their particular brand of poltics is actively oppressive across many axes.  (Again, there are sources all over the place that explain the classism and racism associated with militant veganism.)

Having said all this… one of the things I try really hard not to do in these conversations is invalidate their beliefs. You can fight the logic, and that’s acceptable. But if someone morally believes in veganism, you can’t fight that. Moral beliefs are often closed doors. And sometimes that’s okay. I mean, you can and should fight the things about veganism that are oppressive, but if someone wants to lead a vegan lifestyle, they of course have that right and should be left to it.

I hope this has been helpful. If any other mod or follower has anything to add, they are welcome to do so. I totally invite it!


Non-Vegans: There are better ways to spread veganism rather than being so radical and pushy. If you’re nicer to people they’ll listen to you, no one’s going to listen to your militant views.

What they really mean: I don’t like the way you talk about what I’m actually doing and I would really appreciate it if you were more of a push-over so I could ignore you easier and feel comfortable with exploiting and oppressing millions of animals for my own pleasure.

Once when I had just gone vegan, someone seriously tried to force feed me bacon. They put their hand on my face and tried to hold my mouth open so they could force feed me bacon. I’ve also had people try to hide animal products in my food. So don’t you fucking say vegans are shoving anything down your throat unless we literally hold you down and stuff broccoli in your face.

Every time I see some militant vegan post on tumblr talking about how terrible I am for eating meat and how they are better for choosing a vegan lifestyle, I instantly get the urge to eat a delicious steak while watching animal planet videos of crocodiles and lions ripping apart and eating buffalo.  

Let’s talk about this. 

Tumblr vegans are big believers in the concept of speciesism, that humans shouldn’t eat animals because we are also animals (or something) and that’s savage. 

But what about carnivorous bloodmouth animals? Surely, being equal to humans, they should know the errors of their savage ways and convert to militant veganism.

How do they reconcile that with the belief that humans are equal to animals? If animals have the same intelligence as humans, why are they exempted from scorn? Wouldn’t promoting some sort of “human exceptionalism” argument (i.e. that humans should know better because we’re more intelligent) completely demolish their point about humans and animals being equal? 

Are they trying to have it both ways?

To the people who cry and moan over “angry vegans”.

Are you annoyed by us? Do we frustrate you? Is it bothersome? Does it piss you off? Are you sick of it?

What can I say? We absolutely love telling people what they’re eating, what they’re contributing to. We love reciting all the things wrong with meat, dairy and eggs. We love having to explain over and over again what happens to dairy cows and their calves, or egg-laying hens and the roosters. We love telling you what happens to pigs and sheep and goats. We love protesting, love petitions, love reading about all the terrible things that go on in slaughter houses and dairy farms and egg factories and puppy mills and the fur/leather/wool industries.

Except we don’t love it at all. And I have news for you, we’re more annoyed, frustrated, bothered, pissed off and sick of it than you could even imagine. You think we like being filled with sadness and guilt and frustration every day? Do you think we enjoy knowing what goes on? Do you think it gives us pleasure to argue with meat eaters, back and forth, debating whether or not animals matter? Because we fucking don’t.

All we want is an end to cruelty, oppression, pain and suffering. We want that more than anything. So sorry if it “bothers” you. But it’s time to stop thinking about yourselves.

Militant vegans and vegetarians make me ashamed to be a vegetarian.

Most of them are self-righteous, condescending or just in general cuckoo and never think about how certain factors like health, disability and economic status can make it very difficult for someone to be a vegan or vegetarian. Plus, are you going to walk up to someone starving in a third world country and tell them they can’t eat animals? Fuck that! Plus, you’re making us non-crazy vegans and vegetarians look bad. Stop that!


There are ways to advocate for the ethical treatment of animals without comparing them to PoC.

There are ways to do this without comparing the slaughter of animals to the Holocaust and to the brutal, racist history of the United States. 

Kindly fucking learn them.

Christ almighty, learn to be decent human beings. 

I’m just gonna go right out and say it.

I don’t think male vegans should even be allowed to lecture women for eating meat. Men already have the privilege in our patriarchal/kyriarchal of being allowed to lust over meat - and being a male vegan does not change that fact, even though they choose not to exercise that privilege. To lecture women (who are already discouraged by our patriarchal/kyriarchal from enjoying meat in the same manner as men do) is to simply exert their male privilege over us. It’s makes them no different from carnivorous dudebros who do that same exact shit to us.

~ Sera

Anti-vegan blogs

I see these ridiculous blogs spouting this nonsense bullshit and it initially makes me angry. But I eventually can’t help but start chuckling when I see these people get so red in the face about how “brainwashed” all of these militant vegans are. It’s ridiculously ironic to accuse someone else of being brainwashed when you’re literally parroting everything the meat and dairy industries have systematically programmed into people’s brains for generations.

Of course you don’t understand how I can relate to Gary Yourofsky. Of course you don’t understand the frustration, the anger, the sadness, the hopelessness I and many others feel day in and day out. You’re not a militant vegan. You’re not an abolitionist. You’re not an animal rights activist or spokesperson. I know you don’t understand what it feels like to care about non-human animals to the same extent you do about humans. 

So no, I don’t expect you to fucking understand how it feels to live constantly knowing that every second of every day, millions of beings you care about, who you fight for, who you try to help are being brutalized and slaughtered and abused in the most disgusting ways possible.

You try and live with that sort of guilt and pain. Then come and tell me you’ve never thought “I hope they get what’s coming to them”. Not even once.